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I'm trying to find the scariest entity in the Megaverse, judged purely on Horror Factor.
The highest HF I can find is on Nxla which has a HF of 19.
Can anyone think of anything scarier?

Please, no Mulka.

Giant2005 wrote:I'm trying to find the scariest entity in the Megaverse, judged purely on Horror Factor.
The highest HF I can find is on Nxla which has a HF of 19.
Can anyone think of anything scarier?

Please, no Mulka.

I don't know about scarier, but Styphon is a HF 19 as well (Dragons and Gods, forgot the page number).

I'm thinking 19 might be the limit - Cromal the Demon Planet is 19 too and I can't imagine much of anything being scarier than him.
Well anything that needs stats at least.

A HU Mega-Hero with an Awe/Horror Factor can have up to HF 15 to start (11+1d4), and can increase his/her/its awe factor by +1 per two points taken from IQ or PE, with a maximum of up to +3, for a total of HF 18.
IF they also have the Divine Aura power, the "Power of Illusion" ability allows the character to appear twice as big as he/she/it really is, adding +2 to Awe/Horror Factor, which would bring the total up to HF 20.

Death (of the Four Horsemen fame) also joins the club at HF 19.

Braden Campbell wrote:Death (of the Four Horsemen fame) also joins the club at HF 19.

Was the Apocolyps Demon also HF 19? I'd have to check, but there might be your 20...

Hystrix wrote:

Braden Campbell wrote:Death (of the Four Horsemen fame) also joins the club at HF 19.

Was the Apocolyps Demon also HF 19? I'd have to check, but there might be your 20...

In a pink MLP tutu....THAT would drive it up to HF 20, or 21.
Welcome, gibbering insanity.

i think 19 may be the max.. similar to how skills top out at 98%
higher than 19 and no normal person would have any chance of passing short of a nat20, which isn't much fun for players.
given how few OCC's or abilities give bonuses against HF, that is a major issue.

glitterboy2098 wrote:i think 19 may be the max.. similar to how skills top out at 98%
higher than 19 and no normal person would have any chance of passing short of a nat20, which isn't much fun for players.
given how few OCC's or abilities give bonuses against HF, that is a major issue.

Yeah, but think of the demons we are talking about. Theses arn't random encounters, they are major (evil) players on Rifts Earth.

Besides the more Cuthuluesque a demon gets, the more is less about save vs HF and more about save vs. Insanity!

Even creatures like The Lord of the Deep and Sedna the Sea Hag -both of whom can drive mortals mad just from looking upon their true form -top out at the apparent, unstated "upper limit" of Horror Factor 19.

But that's by the numbers.

In one of the Three Galaxies setting Books, there is a Nebula out there somewhere that leads to a dark dimension of some sort.

It caused a Cosmo-Knight to die from fright after uttering a few short words when she came back out......and she was apparently, physically untouched.

Giant2005 wrote:I'm trying to find the scariest entity in the Megaverse, judged purely on Horror Factor.
The highest HF I can find is on Nxla which has a HF of 19.
Can anyone think of anything scarier?

Please, no Mulka.

A very high level mage casting Armor Bizarre. Some of the NPCs out there are as high as level 30. The HF increases per level in that spell and I saw no cap for it.

If I'm remembering right, that's a potential HF in the 30s or maybe 40s. Will double check.

This could be amplified further if a group of mages cast it using the sorcerous advantage (TTGD) that allows them to add their levels in calculating spell effects. That ability allows 1 mage in group per level (based on highest mage I think).

So with a group of 15 level 15 mages, that's a HF of over 15^2 (not including the base of the spell) or over 225.

========================================

Edit correction update: I misremembered a couple things last night so the above calculations are mistaken, so I'll correct that:

Armor Bizarre's HF accrues at a lower rate, I thought it was 1/lvl but it is 1/2 levels with a 9 base. So a level 30 spellcaster (highest level I've seen in any Palladium Books, though I heard a rumour the Old Ones were level 40) would have a HF of 24, and a lvl 20 caster would get HF 19. Something tells me that in all probability while compiling FoM they were only thinking of lvl 20 bros like Splynncryth (isn't he around there? meh) and not annoying ubercasters like Thoth.

I also misremembered how Group Casting (from Nightbane: Through the Glass Darkly) works. It only multiplies range/duration/damage by the number of people in the group, not adding experience levels or multiplying any other spell components like HF or # of minions summoned, etc. So all Armor Bizarre would get out of that would be that it'd last a really long time. Interpreting it strictly it wouldn't even get added damage capacity. I imagine some GMs will allow MDC given by spells to be increased in situations where damage given by spells is increased (don't ley lines work that way?)

That said, the fact that the only experience level that matters in group casting is the leader is utterly frightening. A level 15 mage could get 14 level 1 mages, teach them the spell he wants to boost (let's say annihilate) and multiply his (already level 15) spell by that factor again.

This is a little easier to think of in a factor of 10, actually. A level 10 caster leading 9 guys could cast a 1D6x100 lightning bolt, for example, at an incredibly decent range. This also allows damage that normally doesn't increase (like annihilate) to do so, in this case, a 2d4x1000 ball which can be thrown a long long way.

=====================

I think the reason I misremembered Group Casting is that I got how it works jumbled up with another "GC" from Nightbane, in this case, the master psionic power "Gestalt Circle" from "Between the Shadows". It DOES add the experience levels of people in the circle, and it has a similar '1 member per level of the leader' stipulation.

Remembering Gestalt Circle got me remembering the super psionic power 'Radiate Horror Factor' from Psyscape. Normally it's not all that impressive. A level 15 diabolic insane psychic could still only get a max of HF 18 from it. But using a circle, the possibilities increase.

In this example, let's assume that all the psychics are anarchist, and that none are insane/enraged/evil (which adds bonuses). The psychics can't be good/unprincipled because that only adds a set base and not a per-level increase. It's too confusing to figure out exactly how good psychics mixing with anarchist mixing with evil psychics would work.

First off: there are actually some gods/lords of hades/hell in D+G (and Pantheons) who can do this through merit of having 'all master psionics' or greater demon/deevil species with access to super psionics who could potentially do this through being able to select them (what I remember is the Raksasha Greater Demon and the Wraith Greater Devil). We know that many demons are above level 15 and I think I recall the experience tables for demons/devils in the new Hades/Dyval sourcebooks going up to level 30 much like they do for (ancient/adult?) dragons in Atlantis/D+G. Just going to use the example of 15 since that's usually the cap for humans and the vast majority of player characters.

So we have 15 characters who all have the super psionic of 'Radiate Horror Factor', somehow. They're all level 15, and one of them (the leader) also has 'Gestalt Circle'.

This allows them to create 'Radiate Horror Factor' with a combined level of 225.

The level-based HF of this power is one per three levels, or lvl/3. This equals 75. Adding the base 10 from the power, and we get a horror factor of 85.

Supposing we could somehow get together 30 level 30 psychics with radiate HF (I doubt that many exist, TBH), the level 900 version of the power would give a HF of 310.

Using actual characters from the books though, we can whip up a realistic scenario:

The average level of a Deevil Wraith is 5.5 , we can round that up to 6 considering there are a lot of them and the more experienced ones could be chosen. Each adds 2 HF to the pool due to this. Since Wraiths aren't monopolized by any of the lords, Mephisto has access to smoe. This guy has ALL psychic abilities, at 16th level. That means that in addition to himself, he can link 15 wraiths w/ RadHF via GC. That means a pool of +30 to HF added to his own. That means 12 (they're all evil) +5+30, or a HF of 47 which Mephisto could casually generate when trying to torture his prisoners.

But forget Wraiths, they suck. Let's look at Pandemoniums. According to Dyval book, they're level 9 on average, no rounding required (in D+G their average level used to be 4.5). That means we get 3 HF per each one in a circle. They answer only to Sahtalus. We don't know of any high level 'has all psionics' character to lead the circle, so let's just say they find a level 10 Pandemonium (slightly above average) to lead it.

12 base + 30 (3x10) = a HF of 42 which ol' Satan can have his minions collectively unleash if they wish.

Hades isn't to be left out though. The Demon Lord Abdul-Ra is a 20th level mind mage with all super. He commands the Raksasha who can select 4 super psi and their average level's 7.5. I don't have the Hades sourcebook yet so I don't know how many of these has has to command, but I imagine rounding up 20 who are level 9+ and who selected Radiate HF (seems like it'd be a popular power for Raksasha) wouldn't be that hard.

Even being conservative though, let's say Abdul is only able to find a bunch of lvl 6 Raksasha with RadHF. 2HF per participant is 40, plus 6 coming in from Abdul's lvl 18, plus the 10 base (they're evil, but I counted 20 Raksasha when it should be 19) gives us a HF of 56 from our cat-in-love-with-an-ice-princess.

=========

Sadly I just realized there's a blurb in Gestalt Circle (for some reason under the 'attacks per melee' note) saying that the maximum is 8 members. I'm not clear if that refers to all aspects of the circle, or simply the max amount of attacks (2 per member, so 16) though... how to interpret that?

Assuming it does cap the members to 8 (leader + 7), this would reduce the calculations for the above evil guys a good lot. Abdul-ra and his 7 lvl6 Raksasha could only produce a HF of 12 + 6 + (7*2) or only 32 max, or 39 if you let the Raksasha be lvl 9. Mephisto and his 7 lvl 6 wraiths could only produce a HF of 12+5+7*2 or 31 max. Sahtalus' gang of 8 experienced lvl9 pandemoniums could produce a HF of 12 + 8*3 or a HF of 36.

I got wondering though, is there anything forbidding characters from forming more than one gestalt circle simultaneously? It doesn't seem to say that anywhere...

For example: let's say we have 7 level 8 master psis with the Gestalt circle power, and they each form and lead a circle with 7 underlings. Could another level 8 master psi come along and link those 7 leaders in a new circle?

If that happened, I'm wondering how that'd work. If it would pool the boosted XP levels, or only the base levels.

It is sad to say but it turns out a Power Leech is the scariest thing in the Megaverse...

Thraxus in a speedo.

Cormal's Mother. Cause, let's face it, there can't anything scarier than a demon planet, the size of Jupiter, in an Apron wielding a Planet-Sized Frying Pan of DOOOOOOOM!

"Cormal!! You get you butt back here RIGHT NOW and clean your room!! It's full of destroyed planets and dirty underwear! Billions of years old and you still leave skid marks!!"
"But Mooooooom! I'm destroying the galaxy!
"But nothing Young Man! You march your rear back here right now! You can help the Demons destroy the Megaverse once you've cleaned your room! They'll still be trying anyway..."
"Okay mom..."

In the case of 'scary' being based purely on HF... anything HF 19
Otherwise, the scariest thing in the megaverse... a GM in a really bad mood

JuliusCreed wrote:In the case of 'scary' being based purely on HF... anything HF 19
Otherwise, the scariest thing in the megaverse... a GM in a really bad mood

Or with the latest 'monster-themed' game source book.

The minor old one in the Palladium Fantasy Old Ones book has a HF level of "Save vs insanity if the players are dumb enough to actually enter the prisons inner sanctuary".

I don't think you can get worse than a horror factor that bypasses Save vs HF and goes right to asve vs. insanity.

Brimstone wrote:A Nuruni sales Representative with really really easy payment plans and low-low interests rates!

Nice.

Nuruni sales Representative: "Pay no attention to the Army of Repo Bots dismembering my former client. Really!"

For me, it's still one of the Old Ones - there are no stats for them. But to look at them less to make physical/psionical contact can drive a character insane.

Floopers.
'nuff said.

DhAkael wrote:Floopers.
'nuff said.

Ninja BioBorg Flooper Assassins in Clown Outfits.
Singing karaoke.
For your birthday.
Just before they disembowel you.
With their teeth.

Hands down... Plot immunity.

taalismn wrote:

DhAkael wrote:Floopers.
'nuff said.

Ninja BioBorg Flooper Assassins in Clown Outfits.
Singing karaoke.
For your birthday.
Just before they disembowel you.
With their teeth.

You're sick, Man! SIIIIIIIIIIIICK!

I like it!

taalismn wrote:

DhAkael wrote:Floopers.
'nuff said.

Ninja BioBorg Flooper Assassins in Clown Outfits.
Singing karaoke.
For your birthday.
Just before they disembowel you.
With their teeth.

Flooper Timelords.

Okay; being serious now?
Living nightmares from 'Beyond the shadows'.
Or the Flesh sculptor from 'Through the glass darkly'

Giant2005 wrote:It is sad to say but it turns out a Power Leech is the scariest thing in the Megaverse...

So it seems, situationally, circumstantially.

We should figure out just how big they need to be to pass that HF19 barrier though. *seeks out his Psyscape* You can't scare people too well if you can't fit inside their house.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:The minor old one in the Palladium Fantasy Old Ones book

1st ed or 2nd ed? Do they mention it by name? Is it one of the big named ones, or one of those 'maybe it's a lesser old one' types which potentially includes Apsu, the Lord of the Deep, Nxla or Vampire Intelligences?

Nekira Sudacne wrote:has a HF level of "Save vs insanity if the players are dumb enough to actually enter the prisons inner sanctuary". I don't think you can get worse than a horror factor that bypasses Save vs HF and goes right to asve vs. insanity.

Not worse but... isn't that similar to what happens to those who see The Dark via the Dark Portal in Moloch's base in Nightlands?

kirkpicard wrote:It's been a while since i read it, but in Wormwood, i believe there is a NPC with a HF of 19 as well.

I must assume this is the Unholy. I think being the Host's leader might give a boost to that. Shouldn't the eyepatch make him less scary? Or possibly more?

DhAkael wrote:Okay; being serious now? Living nightmares from 'Beyond the shadows'. Or the Flesh sculptor from 'Through the glass darkly'

The latter just wanna heal people. Sure they're scary if they capture you and want to torture you, but so's anybody. As for LNs, that varies widely on whatever powers they possess. A lot of them are barely worse than sentient dream personas. I could potentially be far more afraid of a Guilt Eater, Soul Leech or Morpheomoth than some of the lower tier living nightmares.

The Portal leading to the Dark.

Most people (meaning you the players) have a -10 to save vs. insanity, and if you fail.......you essentially have to roll up a new character, as you are essentially rendered permanently almost mindless.

Somebody help me out on this, because math isn't my strong suit....

Situation 1: A normal person (no bonuses) facing off against a monster with HF 19 would have a 5% chance of making their save vs. Horror.
Situation 2: A normal person (no bonuses) facing off against a monster with a HF 10, who was holding a Bandit BigBore Shotgun (HF: 12) would have to make two checks, one with a 50% chance of success, and one with a 40% chance of success.

In which scenario would the human have the best chance of making their save vs. Horror, and why?

Killer Cyborg wrote:Somebody help me out on this, because math isn't my strong suit....

Situation 1: A normal person (no bonuses) facing off against a monster with HF 19 would have a 5% chance of making their save vs. Horror.
Situation 2: A normal person (no bonuses) facing off against a monster with a HF 10, who was holding a Bandit BigBore Shotgun (HF: 12) would have to make two checks, one with a 50% chance of success, and one with a 40% chance of success.

In which scenario would the human have the best chance of making their save vs. Horror, and why?

Ummmm....average out both percentages in the second example, for an average Save of about 45%??

Still seems like a hell of a lot better than the 5% chance to me.

Killer Cyborg wrote:Somebody help me out on this, because math isn't my strong suit....

Situation 1: A normal person (no bonuses) facing off against a monster with HF 19 would have a 5% chance of making their save vs. Horror.
Situation 2: A normal person (no bonuses) facing off against a monster with a HF 10, who was holding a Bandit BigBore Shotgun (HF: 12) would have to make two checks, one with a 50% chance of success, and one with a 40% chance of success.

In which scenario would the human have the best chance of making their save vs. Horror, and why?

If you are rolling twice in situation 2, the character would have a 20% chance of making both saves.
I'm not sure I'd have them roll twice though, having someone roll multiple times against multiple entities is one thing but a scary monster with a scary weapon is still one entity.
BTW,
Situation 3: A normal person (no bonuses) facing off against a monster with a HF 10, who was holding a Bandit BigBore Shotgun (HF: 12) and was under the influence of a level 1 Armor Bizarre (HF: 9) would have to make three checks, one with a 50% chance of success, one with a 40% chance of success and one with a 55% chance of success.
In situation 3, that normal person would have an 11% chance of succeeding in all three rolls.

Tor wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:The minor old one in the Palladium Fantasy Old Ones book

1st ed or 2nd ed? Do they mention it by name? Is it one of the big named ones, or one of those 'maybe it's a lesser old one' types which potentially includes Apsu, the Lord of the Deep, Nxla or Vampire Intelligences?

Yes, it's mentioned by name, but not one of the "Big" named ones. nor is it a "maybe" lesser old one--it's explicitly stated to be a lesser old one with absolutely no room for confusion. It also had a name but i'd have to get up and figure out where I left the book to type it out. the stats are only in the 1st ed book. the second ed book has much the same buildup but cuts the actual statblock

Nekira Sudacne wrote:has a HF level of "Save vs insanity if the players are dumb enough to actually enter the prisons inner sanctuary". I don't think you can get worse than a horror factor that bypasses Save vs HF and goes right to asve vs. insanity.

Not worse but... isn't that similar to what happens to those who see The Dark via the Dark Portal in Moloch's base in Nightlands

[/quote]

Well yes, it is. at that point humans don't really have a scale to compare them. is untransformed Xy scarier than The Dark? there's no tool to mesure.

Giant2005 wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:Somebody help me out on this, because math isn't my strong suit....

Situation 1: A normal person (no bonuses) facing off against a monster with HF 19 would have a 5% chance of making their save vs. Horror.
Situation 2: A normal person (no bonuses) facing off against a monster with a HF 10, who was holding a Bandit BigBore Shotgun (HF: 12) would have to make two checks, one with a 50% chance of success, and one with a 40% chance of success.

In which scenario would the human have the best chance of making their save vs. Horror, and why?

If you are rolling twice in situation 2, the character would have a 20% chance of making both saves.

Okay, that sounds right.

I'm not sure I'd have them roll twice though, having someone roll multiple times against multiple entities is one thing but a scary monster with a scary weapon is still one entity.

Agreed. But the rules never support that natural inclination, so by-the-book, they might well all stack.

BTW,
Situation 3: A normal person (no bonuses) facing off against a monster with a HF 10, who was holding a Bandit BigBore Shotgun (HF: 12) and was under the influence of a level 1 Armor Bizarre (HF: 9) would have to make three checks, one with a 50% chance of success, one with a 40% chance of success and one with a 55% chance of success.
In situation 3, that normal person would have an 11% chance of succeeding in all three rolls.

Nice.

cornholioprime wrote:The Portal leading to the Dark.

Most people (meaning you the players) have a -10 to save vs. insanity, and if you fail.......you essentially have to roll up a new character, as you are essentially rendered permanently almost mindless.

I recall this is only in the case of humans. Non-human chars like banes/guardians also get penalties and can get insanities from the process, but not as extensive as humans in the whole 'you're a gibbering vegetable mess' type extremity.

I think Squires/Princes/Princesses/Lords also get lower penalties, though only being someone bonded to it (Moloch/Mocker/maybeFoulseedInTheFutureBecauseHeIsAwesome) gets no penalties.

They really should come out with rules on how to become a Night Squire and how to become a Night Lord in turn. I know they transform you, but the way they talk about sorcerers learning how to become them it seems very OCCish.

I don't think it would be the first learnable RCC out there. Psychics aren't the only non-racial RCCS...

Karl Prosek. In. A. SPEEDO. Truly, the stuff of nightmares.

Enlightened Immortal Mega-Hero Super Dimensional Dragon God!

... Sorry. I just couldn't resist!

BookWyrm wrote:Karl Prosek. In. A. SPEEDO. Truly, the stuff of nightmares.

If Erin Tarn is still sexually worshipped in the NGR I imagine Karl has legions of female fans.

Tor wrote:

BookWyrm wrote:Karl Prosek. In. A. SPEEDO. Truly, the stuff of nightmares.

If Erin Tarn is still sexually worshipped in the NGR I imagine Karl has legions of female fans.

Either way.......

I forget Karl's PB, but men can have ugly mugs and awesome bods. I expect Karl would be majorly benefitting from every bit of cutting edge anti-aging research to keep him ripped up.

Karl Prosek can bench 500lbs: truth.