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I feel like this is a dumb question, but does the See the Invisible spell/nat ability trump the Superior Invisibility spell?

This has been argued for ages in the forums
The best consensus is...Maybe. It really depends on which mutually contradictory bit of text the GM wants to give precedence too.

eliakon wrote:This has been argued for ages in the forums
The best consensus is...Maybe. It really depends on which mutually contradictory bit of text the GM wants to give precedence too.

Agreed.

The psi powers sees both Invis. Simp. & Sup. according to the power text.
Which I find it seeing Iinvis. Sup. a bit stupid cause the spell says that is conceals the target from all forms of detection.
But what can you say when the Psi power is very specific in what it says.

I would say that Invis. Sup. trumps a Nat. Ability to see the Invis.

There is a see the invis. Spell in canon???????
If push came to shove I would say Invis. Sup. Trumps the StI spell too.

R:UE, page 203 wrote:Invisibility: Simple
Note: ((skipped a bit...)) Characters who can See the Invisible see both Simple and Superior Invisibility.

Oddly enough See the invisible itself never says anything about the invisibility spells instead you have to actually read their descriptions.

Slight001 wrote:

R:UE, page 203 wrote:Invisibility: Simple
Note: ((skipped a bit...)) Characters who can See the Invisible see both Simple and Superior Invisibility.

Oddly enough See the invisible itself never says anything about the invisibility spells instead you have to actually read their descriptions.

YAY Canon solutions

See the invisible sees invisibility superor, but as a blurry outline, which gives them -2 to hit the target

so GM discretion then- lol.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:See the invisible sees invisibility superor, but as a blurry outline, which gives them -2 to hit the target

Where did you get that from? Can I get a book and page number on that? I'd like to read the wording myself.

Invisibility: Simple, RUE p. 203, last sentence in the spell description:
"Characters who can See The Invisible see both Simple and Superior Invisibility."

Nekira Sudacne wrote:See the invisible sees invisibility superor, but as a blurry outline, which gives them -2 to hit the target

Where is this found in the books?

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:See the invisible sees invisibility superor, but as a blurry outline, which gives them -2 to hit the target

Where is this found in the books?

Heroes Unlimited Second Edition, page 330.

Then it doesn't apply. This is Rifts not HU. Interesting rule but its from a different line.

Slight001 wrote:Then it doesn't apply. This is Rifts not HU. Interesting rule but its from a different line.

well more likely its a "this is the precedent, and will likely become universal at some point....but it isn't now" That said HU is probably the last line I would go to for rules (Particle Beams damage the Invulnerable in HU for instance)

I'd go with a save vs magic on the see the invisible, if it's successful they can see the one hidden by invisibility superior, if it's not they don't.

eliakon wrote:

Slight001 wrote:Then it doesn't apply. This is Rifts not HU. Interesting rule but its from a different line.

well more likely its a "this is the precedent, and will likely become universal at some point....but it isn't now" That said HU is probably the last line I would go to for rules (Particle Beams damage the Invulnerable in HU for instance)

Nah it's more along the lines of I'm not going to reward/penalize players because they own different game lines. Nothing more nothing less.

Consider a different situation. A Palladium Fantasy Psi-Mystic is rifted to a high P.P.E. M.D.C. world they have a version of Armor of Ithan with a base of 100 S.D.C., +10 per level of experience, that should be converted one to one into M.D.C. because that is the spell they know. In the reverse a Rifts Mystic (RUE) is rifted to an S.D.C. world. Their Armor of Ithan only has 10 S.D.C. per level of experience, because that is the version of the spell that they know...

So should I start cherry picking all the best bits from the various lines to produce the most 'effective' selection available or should I instead stick with the single line I am playing with? Obviously, the power gamer is going to want to cherry pick, but that access and I'm not in favor of favoring the ones with the most books.

Slight001 wrote:

eliakon wrote:

Slight001 wrote:Then it doesn't apply. This is Rifts not HU. Interesting rule but its from a different line.

well more likely its a "this is the precedent, and will likely become universal at some point....but it isn't now" That said HU is probably the last line I would go to for rules (Particle Beams damage the Invulnerable in HU for instance)

Nah it's more along the lines of I'm not going to reward/penalize players because they own different game lines. Nothing more nothing less.

Consider a different situation. A Palladium Fantasy Psi-Mystic is rifted to a high P.P.E. M.D.C. world they have a version of Armor of Ithan with a base of 100 S.D.C., +10 per level of experience, that should be converted one to one into M.D.C. because that is the spell they know. In the reverse a Rifts Mystic (RUE) is rifted to an S.D.C. world. Their Armor of Ithan only has 10 S.D.C. per level of experience, because that is the version of the spell that they know...

So should I start cherry picking all the best bits from the various lines to produce the most 'effective' selection available or should I instead stick with the single line I am playing with? Obviously, the power gamer is going to want to cherry pick, but that access and I'm not in favor of favoring the ones with the most books.

Some people work very hard to cherry-pick the best versions of things. I'm not saying that that's a good thing, as it leads to a great many... complications, but it does happen.

Slight001 wrote:

eliakon wrote:

Slight001 wrote:Then it doesn't apply. This is Rifts not HU. Interesting rule but its from a different line.

well more likely its a "this is the precedent, and will likely become universal at some point....but it isn't now" That said HU is probably the last line I would go to for rules (Particle Beams damage the Invulnerable in HU for instance)

Nah it's more along the lines of I'm not going to reward/penalize players because they own different game lines. Nothing more nothing less.

Consider a different situation. A Palladium Fantasy Psi-Mystic is rifted to a high P.P.E. M.D.C. world they have a version of Armor of Ithan with a base of 100 S.D.C., +10 per level of experience, that should be converted one to one into M.D.C. because that is the spell they know. In the reverse a Rifts Mystic (RUE) is rifted to an S.D.C. world. Their Armor of Ithan only has 10 S.D.C. per level of experience, because that is the version of the spell that they know...

So should I start cherry picking all the best bits from the various lines to produce the most 'effective' selection available or should I instead stick with the single line I am playing with? Obviously, the power gamer is going to want to cherry pick, but that access and I'm not in favor of favoring the ones with the most books.

No... Their Armor of Ithan should be as powerful as the Dimension they are in. You just proved yourself that it doesn't convert on a 1:1 basis.

Giant2005 wrote:

Slight001 wrote:

eliakon wrote:

Slight001 wrote:Then it doesn't apply. This is Rifts not HU. Interesting rule but its from a different line.

well more likely its a "this is the precedent, and will likely become universal at some point....but it isn't now" That said HU is probably the last line I would go to for rules (Particle Beams damage the Invulnerable in HU for instance)

Nah it's more along the lines of I'm not going to reward/penalize players because they own different game lines. Nothing more nothing less.

Consider a different situation. A Palladium Fantasy Psi-Mystic is rifted to a high P.P.E. M.D.C. world they have a version of Armor of Ithan with a base of 100 S.D.C., +10 per level of experience, that should be converted one to one into M.D.C. because that is the spell they know. In the reverse a Rifts Mystic (RUE) is rifted to an S.D.C. world. Their Armor of Ithan only has 10 S.D.C. per level of experience, because that is the version of the spell that they know...

So should I start cherry picking all the best bits from the various lines to produce the most 'effective' selection available or should I instead stick with the single line I am playing with? Obviously, the power gamer is going to want to cherry pick, but that access and I'm not in favor of favoring the ones with the most books.

No... Their Armor of Ithan should be as powerful as the Dimension they are in. You just proved yourself that it doesn't convert on a 1:1 basis.

I'd have to agree, the spell is the same spell whether you learn it in Heroes Unlimited, Beyond the Supernatural, or Rifts, it's the dimension you're in and how it affects magic that's causing the spell to behave in different ways. Same goes with all the other spells that are basically identical between the settings, they're all governed by how that particular dimension affects magic not by what dimension the spell was taught in.