Death Blow and Critical Strike

[SaberWalk]

Ok, I'm sure this has been covered before, but the rules on Death Blows and Critical Strike seem to contradict each other. How exactly does it work? Can you do a Critical Strike on a natural 20 without having the Critical Strike on a natural 20 ability? Someone please explain these rules very clearly to me, because obviously I'm too stupid to get it.

[Tinker Dragoon]

If I understand it correctly:

Everyone can do critical strikes on a natural 20, even those with no combat training whatsoever (it's just dumb luck in this case).

Critical strike on a natural number less than 20 requires that you actually have the ability listed in the level advancement bonuses of your martial art form or hand to hand combat skill.

Critical Strike from Behind can also only be performed if it is provided by one's martial art form or hand to hand combat skill.

Knockout/stuns follow similar rules except that they must be provided by one's martial art, hand to hand combat skill or boxing, and to use it you have to declare that you are attempting to knock out your opponent (unless you have boxing and roll a natural 20).

Death Blows also must be declared, and can only be performed if one's martial art form or hand to hand combat skill provides it. Like Critical Strikes and Knockout/Stuns, you must meet certain conditions (e.g. roll a natural 19 or 20) for the attack to be effective.

[SaberWalk]

So you cannot do a Death Blow unless you declare it before you roll, AND roll the natural number whatever that may be?

[Tinker Dragoon]

Correct.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Death Blows also must be declared, and can only be performed if one's martial art form or hand to hand combat skill provides it. Like Critical Strikes and Knockout/Stuns, you must meet certain conditions (e.g. roll a natural 19 or 20) for the attack to be effective.

then why do so many marital arts say they have death blow when THEY NEVER SAY ANYWHERE WHAT NUMBER YOU NEED

[Mantisking]

Originally posted by Nekira Sudacne.
then why do so many marital arts say they have death blow when THEY NEVER SAY ANYWHERE WHAT NUMBER YOU NEED

Poor editing.

[Nekira Sudacne]

So what happens of you declare a Death Blow and roll a number less than 20 (or 19 in some cases), that number of course not being 1-4?

Much as I appreciate the sight of many fans pounding heads into concrete walls, the rule (at least in Ninjas & Superspies) is pretty clear:

N&S, page 129, under Death Blow:

* '"...an automatic kill because the attach inflicts double damage (plus damage bonus) direct to hit points (no S.D.C. damage)."

* "An unsuccessful Death Blow does 1D6 damage."

As I recall, the dice needed for Death Blow were a little more forgiving in the first (un-revised) version of N&S....

Erick

hmmm, sinse you'er here would you mind answering two questions for me?

1. the one I already stated, what do we do for all the martial arts that say they have deathblow but do not specify a numb er or level to get it and

2. why was it revised sinse from what I saw you took the power levels way down. what was the reason?

[Tinker Dragoon]

Death Blows also must be declared, and can only be performed if one's martial art form or hand to hand combat skill provides it. Like Critical Strikes and Knockout/Stuns, you must meet certain conditions (e.g. roll a natural 19 or 20) for the attack to be effective.

then why do so many marital arts say they have death blow when THEY NEVER SAY ANYWHERE WHAT NUMBER YOU NEED

Since I'm too tired to look through the damn book right now and analyze every such occurrence, I'll just guess that it's either (A) poor editing, or (B) assumed to be 20 unless otherwise stated.

[acreRake]

I decided that the arts that list Deathblow and then never list it in level advancement get it at first level, with the (pretty much) standard 20 target.

[Cranus]

For those of us whom have the revised rules, would it be possible to be given the original die result needed? I am curious as I really don't see death blow as a truly feasible tactic with the way it is in both the revised rules and the other (later) games.

[Svartalf]

I wasn't responsible for the revision of Ninjas & Superspies, nor did I do the actual 're-write.'
Erick

Here's my hat to you Mr Wujcik... I must admit that, while loving the concept of N&SS and a lot of the stuff in there, I grumbled a lot at the horredous editing, and most especially at the error riddled martial arts advancement tables.

I do confess that I *did* think the worse of you when I discovered that the game had been revised, and that many of the revisions detracted a lot from the fun of the game, and even of it's inner logic (I mean, the restrictions on Exclusive forms, barring them from everybody but Dedicated Martial Artists were no fun [especially as many of them are not so powerful as THAT] and the massive reduction in power of the Martial Artist OCCs through less forms seemed absurd... after all, they have few skills, heck, a DFedicated one has nearly *no* skills, no hi tech gadgets or weapons.... and they took away their arts).

Now that I know that you had nothing to do with it, I give back to you my unblemished consideration for all it's worth

[Svartalf]

1. the one I already stated, what do we do for all the martial arts that say they have deathblow but do not specify a number or level to get it and

Natural 20 would be a good answer...

Erick

this still leaves the problem of all those forms, like yu sool, which don't have a specified level when the death blow ability is acquired.
is it safe to assume level 1 in every case? given the many cases where the ability is actually gained later, it doesn't sound right...

I do guess, that a superrevised edition of N&SS is in order, with those nasty editorial bugs corrected, and maybe the unwarranted, first "revisions" removed ...

[Nekira Sudacne]

I think we should use the Rifts version, as found in it's martial arts, where in some ones, like Zanji and Jujitsu, you can try it at any time, but it counts as 2 actions.

[Svartalf]

I think we should use the Rifts version, as found in it's martial arts, where in some ones, like Zanji and Jujitsu, you can try it at any time, but it counts as 2 actions.

not sure it works like that... that's a special Rifts revision where they have a lot of attacks per melee to spend ... even though that's indeed the way RJ intends things to work with kendo, karate and Jujutsu
(read zanji again, when it appears, it does have a target number)

[Nekira Sudacne]

I think we should use the Rifts version, as found in it's martial arts, where in some ones, like Zanji and Jujitsu, you can try it at any time, but it counts as 2 actions.

not sure it works like that... that's a special Rifts revision where they have a lot of attacks per melee to spend ... even though that's indeed the way RJ intends things to work with kendo, karate and Jujutsu
(read zanji again, when it appears, it does have a target number)

keep reading it. it gets a number. . . THEN looses it at level 9