Borders in Rifts Earth

[Killer Cyborg]

Borders would be based on the landscape and natural features, as well as being based on political reasons.

[Slag]

It should be based on what borders are always based on: Whoever controls what and where.

[Kalinda]

For the most part borders would be defined by the landscape, but the CS would continue to use the old state borders from the US as a way to link themselves to that fallen empire.

[Drakenred®™©]

You have to remember that part of the "Natural terain" is now the old highway and railway systems

[vitae_drinker]

I don't know how I would define the borders, beyond "as far as you can enforce your authority." It may be that some nations with (relatively) friendly neighbors could base it on common agreement on a hill or river, or even on a jointly agreed upon section of map (less likely, IMO).

But frankly, I think it would be more based on how far you could enforce your writ of law, rather than a topographical feature or an arbitrary line on a map, and so could change year to year, or even day to day in more hostile areas.

[Warwolf]

Both, just like present day.

[Jeffrey W.]

Because of your mention "state lines", I think it is a given you are referring to the Coalition States and the imaginary state lines of North America.

When coming out of the Dark Ages, the Coalition lacked satellite imagery and was forced to rely upon existing pre-rifts maps, most all of which were drawn with these imaginary state lines.

The Coalition Intelligence Officers were required to refer to these state lines for the purpose of incorporating all known existing maps on a state or national level, with regards to map scale and placement.

Pre-rifts maps and expansionist visions were often drawn up on these pre-rifts maps of the former states. New land acquisitions often took some of the names as listed on these state maps.

I believe this answer is all too obvious to both you and me, isn't it?

Jeffrey W.
(rogue scholar)

[Joey Jo Jo Jr]

It should be based on what borders are always based on: Whoever controls what and where.

Exactly.

and don't forget, those who draw the map tend to place the borders according to where they think their country is, creating a very biased map. I've seen atlases printed at about the same time that have very different political borders to each other, each showing the country of origin as the larger.

[grandmaster z0b]

I think one thing to consider is that the CS' air space. I think it would mark their effective area of control, for example they claim all of Texas as the CS state of Lone Star yet clearly do not control it.

So I would assume when you reach CS controlled air space you would receive a radio message informing you that you are entering CS air space and to radio through any security clearance, your flight details and the nature of your trip.

Seems much easier than trying to actually patrol the borders.

[cornholioprime]

I don't know how I would define the borders, beyond "as far as you can enforce your authority." It may be that some nations with (relatively) friendly neighbors could base it on common agreement on a hill or river, or even on a jointly agreed upon section of map (less likely, IMO).

But frankly, I think it would be more based on how far you could enforce your writ of law, rather than a topographical feature or an arbitrary line on a map, and so could change year to year, or even day to day in more hostile areas.

Exactly.

Borders in Rifts Earth are defined as, essentially...


"I kick all @$$ out to this area of Territory right here, and I DOUBLE-DOG DARE you to come step over this Line and prove otherwise...."

[Leprechaunspawn]

Most of the problems defining "borders" seems needlessly one-dimensional. Not that the arguments havent had any validity; they do in fact bring up good ideas. My answer to this query is this:

Make the political borders for Rifts Earth depend on the reference point of the mapmakers. Assuming that humans make the maps, there are a few logical suggestions to work off of. First, lets start with the Coalition. Hi-tech human city-states dedicated to human supremacy and reconquest of the old "American Empire". Since the old U.S. was made up of states, maybe the CS uses the old state-lines both for ease of reference and political purposes. Thus we have CS Lone Star physically controlling only the NW quarter of old Texas, but uses the historical Texas state-line as a defined set of coordinates to ensure accuracy of modern maps. The notion of the States being descendants of the American Empire logically justifies the use of the centuries-old state lines as the modern State borders. Texas became Lone Star, Missouri keeps traditional boundaries, Iowa and northern Illinois are now Chi-Town, Arkansas(Fort El Dorado) uses ancient Arkansas as justification for claiming the disputed territory controlled by enemies...and now, CS Minnesota shows the border exactly where it should be...following historical Minnesota state lines(never mind those Xiticix buggers clearly trespassing on human soil...they will follow Tolkeen under the iron heel of the Coalition!!). This may as well apply for the boundaries drawn by the NGR, since after all, the border of pre-Rifts Germany has remained unchanged despite hundreds of years of conflict with the Gargoyle Empire. The Tech-cities of Japan literally created their current borders when they shifted dimensions then reappeared exactly where they had been 300+ years before; The borders for the Republic of Columbia are based upon preRifts Columbia & Venezuela- even the border of Old Mexico remains unchanged on maps(since the Vampire Kingdoms keep their existence hidden, most people simply assume anything past the mexican border to be infested with hordes of wild vampires-KEEP OUT). The other, smaller independent nations/cities/kingdoms with large human populations probly use the maps of the Coalition States(in N.America) simply out of convenience and plot their own locations and borders in relation to the CS; Northern Gun & the Manistique Imperium both merit official inclusion on CS maps since becoming official CS allies(see Rifts Mercs? for details on the Anti-Naruni pact offered by the States).
Nations such as Stormspire, Dweomer, Federation of Magic, and other nonhuman/magical ruled places could potentially plot their borders in some magical fashion via ley lines or some damn thing; Stormspire seems most likely to employ some sort of TW-based boundary markers which could allow for instant and precise warnings whenever anyone/thing enters their territory; the more alien societies might measure their territories in any number of ways unfamiliar to human beings (for ex. Xiticix chemical markers).
Personally I figure that exact mapping of landforms would remain off of commonly distributed maps outside of the CS military; precise surveys of valuable resources and terrain would benefit enemies of humankind immensely if obtained-imagine characters capturing a current chart showing all sites of Coalition uranium mining,hydroelectric/geothermal power generators, and farmlands(with crop types and projected harvest size) from some military facility or dead courier-not only would the CS put a hefty price on the PCs heads, but the map would bring a unfathomable price if taken to the correct buyer...hehehe.
Feel free to disregard my suggestions if you want, I merely provide them for use and convenience of any who might find useful....Adios!!!!