UEEF Marine Corps Sourcebook

[taalismn]

What are the chances we'll see the hardware from the MOSPEADA video game show up? Like the Disruptor Tank? Slim to none?

[dataweaver]

[Not necessarily. There is still the Griffin Powered Armour and 'Devastator' Cyclone from the Mospeada preproduction as well as the Prototype Cyclone from The Sentinels preproduction to fall back upon. There is even possibly variants of the Alpha based on the Mospeada preproduction that could be utilized. The Horizon-V still needs to be detailed, so its possibly one of the spaceships. There are still a number of designs that could be see detailing without necessarily going into completely uncharted territory.

Your mention of the Devestator brings up an interesting point: Shadow Chronicles already has a "Devestator" Cyclone, the VR-057 Super Cyclone. That said, it looks rather different from the Devestator picture that I've seen elsewhere. OTOH, the majority of the differences appear to lie in the body armor and the choice of weapon systems; perhaps Marines will supply a variant CVR armor and a selection of new Cycone weapon systems rather than a new Cyclone model.

OTOH, the Griffin Power Armor looks like it could be an interesting addition to the Marines' arsenal. And given the blurring of the line between infantry and armor that battloids introduce, I won't be surprised to see some more of the Mospeada preproduction destroids in Marines (I say "more" since we've already seen the Condor).

You mentioned variants of the Alpha; got any further information on that?

[jedi078]

Your mention of the Devestator brings up an interesting point: Shadow Chronicles already has a "Devestator" Cyclone, the VR-057 Super Cyclone. That said, it looks rather different from the Devestator picture that I've seen elsewhere. OTOH, the majority of the differences appear to lie in the body armor and the choice of weapon systems; perhaps Marines will supply a variant CVR armor and a selection of new Cycone weapon systems rather than a new Cyclone model.

The TSC book mentions the VR-55 Devastator as a prototype.....but was too expensive.

More forearm weapons modules for the Cyclones would be nice.

Some sort of official drop pod (as in Starship Troopers) for cyclones would be cool.

I can see some of the weapons from the MOSPEDA video game making it into the Marines source book, IIRC that is where the Invid Overlord mecha came from.

UEEF Destriods would be nice to see as well as a UEEF variant of the venerable Hovertank.

[Chris0013]

Maybe we will get the Centaur tanks. Pretty please.

[dataweaver]

I, too, would like to see the Centaur VHT - but not in UEEF Marines. I want a UEDF supplement that covers roughly 2005-2020 or so; and I want it to feature the Centaur as a UEDF VHT, for use against Anti-Unification forces (at first) and Zentreadi Malcontents (later on). I also want it to feature the VF-4, which was shown in the comic From the Stars.

[dataweaver]

I was saying that I want the VF-4 and the Centaur in a EUDF supplement, not the UEEF Marines supplement.

[ShadowLogan]

Your mention of the Devestator brings up an interesting point: Shadow Chronicles already has a "Devestator" Cyclone, the VR-057 Super Cyclone. That said, it looks rather different from the Devestator picture that I've seen elsewhere. OTOH, the majority of the differences appear to lie in the body armor and the choice of weapon systems; perhaps Marines will supply a variant CVR armor and a selection of new Cycone weapon systems rather than a new Cyclone model.

I think there is even a third version of the "Devestator" Cyclone out there based on visual looks, IIRC, that has a cannon mounted in the location of a chest launcher (I found it, but it has a different name. Maybe Devestator is one of those names that fans throw around for various designs). The Invid Invasion Videogame used it, but I think the name and such might go back before that.

Well, you can't deny the fact that the next book is about MARINES...Just because they're not mentioned in the TV show, doesn't mean they're not there!

No, but they do not seem to be important contributors in any of the animation to be worth mentioning, which the RPG is supposed to be based on.

[dataweaver]

Your mention of the Devestator brings up an interesting point: Shadow Chronicles already has a "Devestator" Cyclone, the VR-057 Super Cyclone. That said, it looks rather different from the Devestator picture that I've seen elsewhere. OTOH, the majority of the differences appear to lie in the body armor and the choice of weapon systems; perhaps Marines will supply a variant CVR armor and a selection of new Cycone weapon systems rather than a new Cyclone model.

I think there is even a third version of the "Devestator" Cyclone out there based on visual looks, IIRC, that has a cannon mounted in the location of a chest launcher (I found it, but it has a different name. Maybe Devestator is one of those names that fans throw around for various designs). The Invid Invasion Videogame used it, but I think the name and such might go back before that.

You might be referring to the Shadow Dancer - that's the only other cyclone model from the video game that I can think of.

Well, you can't deny the fact that the next book is about MARINES...Just because they're not mentioned in the TV show, doesn't mean they're not there!

No, but they do not seem to be important contributors in any of the animation to be worth mentioning, which the RPG is supposed to be based on.

We don't know how many of those cyclone companies in the final assault on Reflex Point were Marines.

[ShadowLogan]

You might be referring to the Shadow Dancer - that's the only other cyclone model from the video game that I can think of.

In the video game art/screenies I've seen the Devestator looks more like the Shadow Dancer, than the one in the RPG/TSC OVA. That is the unit I'm thinking of, but I think I've also seen the Devestator name attached to it (this was years ago). Like I said, it might be one of those fan names that gets applied to different platforms (Vampire and Vulture refer to different vehicles depending on which RT site you look at).

We don't know how many of those cyclone companies in the final assault on Reflex Point were Marines.

True, but nothing is stated that Marines of any kind where there, only Army (and several civilian resistance members), so there is no proof. Army units can perform the same Cyclone missions we see in the RP battle.

[Beatmeclever]

If you pay close attention to SG1 you'll notice that the writers held to the current US structure that has the Air Force in command of space operations. Also, you will see that the majority of SG-teams are made up of Air Force personnel not Marines. IIRC, it isn't until the fourth season that we see the formation of the first Marine Corps SG-team.

Actually if you watch the first season of Stargate SG1 the refer to SG3 as a Marine unit. Jack O'Neil even calls then "Jar Heads" on one occasion. And the term Jar Head is used exclusively to refer to Marines. Also you well see an episode where the Marines are wearing their service Alphas. So from day 1 the SGC has had a Marine continent.

You are correct. I had forgotten about SG-3, sorry. Even so, most of the SG-teams were Air Force in origin (watch their rank insignia).

[ShadowLogan]

If you pay close attention to SG1 you'll notice that the writers held to the current US structure that has the Air Force in command of space operations. Also, you will see that the majority of SG-teams are made up of Air Force personnel not Marines. IIRC, it isn't until the fourth season that we see the formation of the first Marine Corps SG-team.

Actually if you watch the first season of Stargate SG1 the refer to SG3 as a Marine unit. Jack O'Neil even calls then "Jar Heads" on one occasion. And the term Jar Head is used exclusively to refer to Marines. Also you well see an episode where the Marines are wearing their service Alphas. So from day 1 the SGC has had a Marine continent.

You are correct. I had forgotten about SG-3, sorry. Even so, most of the SG-teams were Air Force in origin (watch their rank insignia).

They might even go back to the original Stargate movie, the military units (even O'Niel) are supposed to be Marines at least in the novelization.

[Chris0013]

I have decided that in the Robotech universe no one ever has to 'relieve' themselves. I support this by the fact that we never see a toilet in the entire series. No toilet, therefore no one ever has to 'relieve' themself.

[dataweaver]

They might even go back to the original Stargate movie, the military units (even O'Niel) are supposed to be Marines at least in the novelization.

Yeah; there does tend to be an inordinate focus on Marines when the concept of Special Ops is mentioned. People tend to forget about the Navy SEALs, the Army Rangers, and the Air Force Combat Controllers and Pararescuemen.

[avollant]

I have decided that in the Robotech universe no one ever has to 'relieve' themselves. I support this by the fact that we never see a toilet in the entire series. No toilet, therefore no one ever has to 'relieve' themself.

It isn't just Robotech... I remember one of the first questions a woman asked about Star Trek was :"Where are the toilets when you work on the bridge of the USS Enterprise?"...

Seriously, it may come from the Naval Engeneering Thinking: To have a warship you need:

A) A Hull
B) an Engine
C) Weapons (with Ammo)
D) a Radar

A crew an specially their confort are optional!

This was very thruthfull for the Tribal Class refit (HMCS Algonquin, Iroquois, Huron and Athabaska) along the way they realised that they put up a kitchen but completely forgot to include a mess area for the crew to eat.... The had to redesign it mid way.

See ya

[Beatmeclever]

They might even go back to the original Stargate movie, the military units (even O'Niel) are supposed to be Marines at least in the novelization.

Yeah; there does tend to be an inordinate focus on Marines when the concept of Special Ops is mentioned. People tend to forget about the Navy SEALs, the Army Rangers, and the Air Force Combat Controllers and Pararescuemen.

In the original Stargate movie the team was made up of Army infantry (again, look at the insignia).

Dataweaver has finally touched on my point all along in these various threads: Special Operations is not JUST Marines. There are varying functions that are performed by each of the modern groups in each country of the world all depending on the method of war practiced by that country and the needs of the main force.

I am not against the idea of a UEEF Marine Corps (I included them in my discussion on The Robotechnician), but I think that the UEDF/ASC/UEEF (whatever) was organized more like the Bundeswehr than the US military. And, Dataweaver, this comes to those beginning assumptions again, huh?

[taalismn]

I laugh at the September release date (though will be very surprised if it actually does ship out in September)!!

Oddly enough, the September release date does seem realistic. It is 6 months after The Masters Saga release. Palladium has been averaging a Robotech book about every 5-8 months since Shadow Chronicles. But then again, a schedule slip wouldn't be a surprise.

3/2008 (SC) -> 8/2008 (SC hardback & gold edition) -> 10/2008 (Macross) -> 3/2009 (Masters)

Putting out New Generation and Robotech Spaceships before the end of 2009 does seem too aggressive.

Pray for miracles, my child, pray for miracles....

[taalismn]

Because humans fall into habits? Look how long it took for air forces to become separate entities from being considered part of the army(or navy)...Then look at how the U.S. actually had, at one point, THREE space programs(including lunar exploration proposals), each under the direction of a separate branch of the military, before NASA was created(of course, the Air Force still runs the military space programs; the Navy and Army efforts fell by the wayside)....Cynically speaking, why should the UEG/Robotech Earth be any different?

[dataweaver]

Start by noting that the UEG isn't the USA; it's a successor (perhaps a very direct one) to the UN. The organization of the UEG military therefore isn't derived from any one country; it's a hybrid that was put together from the contributing nations' former militaries, and then forged into something new. Beatmeclever's reference to the Bundeswehr is actually a rather appropriate one, as Germany's military is effectively a merger of the former East German and West German forces. The important thing to note is that the Bundeswehr reorganized itself recently - something that was both made possible and necessitated by the drastic change in the status quo brought about by the reunification of Germany.

Similarly, I can see the UEG military circa 2010 being a sort of grand experiment in its organization. (WARNING: Rampant speculation follows!) Robot Urchin's suggested organizational structure seems reasonable to me, although I don't think that the UEG had any colonies to speak of during the First Robotech War; and after the Rain of Death, Earth's surviving population and infrastructure took on many of the characteristics of a colony world, and its military had to be rebuilt. So I can reasonably see an organizational structure built around a space fleet and its mecha; planet-hopping "ground forces" (I use the term loosely) attached to the space fleet that transports them; and local defensive and peacekeeping forces stationed on Earth.

Circa 2020, the space fleet is organized around the Pioneer Expedition and run by Hayes and Hunter; the planet-hopping ground forces are attached to the Expedition and commanded by Colonel Reinhardt; and Earth's defensive and peacekeeping forces are based out of Monument City and commanded by General Leonard. (By "Earth", I actually mean "the Solar System".)

Circa 2030, there are also local defensive and peacekeeping forces on Tirol and each of the liberated Sentinels worlds, as well as any colonies that any of these worlds have managed to establish. Playing a double entendre on the word sentinel (one who watches for danger and guards the city), I tend to refer to these local peacekeeping and defensive forces as "Sentinel Forces", whether they're associated with one of the Sentinel races, the Tirolians and Zentreadi, or the Humans. As such, Leonard's command from 2017 to 2030 could be considered to be Earth's "Sentinel Force".

Circa 2040, the UEG and its "Sentinel Force" have fallen to the Invid; Edwards' uprising has been put down; and the Sentinel Forces of the other member states are getting a chance to blossom, much like the UEEF has been upgrading itself in its campaign to retake Earth. Much as the UEG superseded the various independent nations of Earth, by 2040 it has been replaced by an interstellar alliance, with Lisa Hunter serving as Earth's representative. The UEEF has become the backbone of the Robotech Alliance's interstellar military force, augmented by support from the various member states (most notably Tirol, Karbarra, and Haydon; but not exclusively so).

In 2044, the UEEF retakes Earth; the Haydonites betray the Alliance; and the Shadow Chronicles begin. I'm hoping that Shadows Rising (or whatever the next installment of the Shadow Chronicles is called) will feature Sentinel Forces as well as the UEEF as the Haydonites seek to lay waste to all of the worlds of the Robotech Alliance - not just Earth, Tirol, and Optera. Until then, that's how I plan to handle matters in my campaign.

How things will look in 2050 is anyone's guess. I'm hoping for a more cosmopolitan UEEF, with Karbarrans, Perytonians, Spherians, Garudans, Praxians, and possibly other races (such as the Invid?) serving alongside Humans, Tirolians, and Zentreadi. By this point, Earth will hopefully have had a chance to rebuild itself; in my personal vision of Robotech 2050, there's a reborn Army of the Southern Cross reminiscent of the original one acting as Earth's Sentinel Force.

[Aramanthus]

I know I'm looking forward to seeing what PB actually does with this book.

[taalismn]

Agreed...I'm quite curious to see what percentage of new material will be included and from what sources(pre-production drawings, or wholly original stuff)...

[Lt Gargoyle]

ME TOO!!! But I am still hoping it is on schedule.

[Aramanthus]

Hopefully we can get some artwork to look at for it. But we can be patient to see it.

[Chris0013]

Maybe we get the Super Logan and Heavy Assault Battloid from Return of the Masters

[dataweaver]

I'm not counting on getting anything that was unique to the old RPG.

[Lt Gargoyle]

Me either but I intend to keep using them. Maybe not how they were introduced but I like those Mecha, all of them. I like the Masters hybrid Mecha and will find some way to introduce them in my up coming game.

[dataweaver]

Oh, definitely. I can think of two possibilities off the top of my head: the "revived ASC of 2050" idea that I suggested above, and the idea of an ASC-derived colony on Glorie circa 2044. In both cases, you'd need upgraded analogs of traditional ASC mecha; and I'm guessing that both the Super Logan and the Heavy Assault Battloid would fit the bill. (Unfortunately, I can't know for sure; I only own the original version of Return of the Masters, and so have never seen the ASC-like mecha from the revised edition.)

[jedi078]

Me either but I intend to keep using them. Maybe not how they were introduced but I like those Mecha, all of them. I like the Masters hybrid Mecha and will find some way to introduce them in my up coming game.

Just use the Hybrid Masters mecha during the Invid Occupation years. There must be a few Robotech Masters who survived the 2nd RT war, they'd want to bolster what meager force they had left. They could be anywhere in the world....

[Chris0013]

Oh, definitely. I can think of two possibilities off the top of my head: the "revived ASC of 2050" idea that I suggested above, and the idea of an ASC-derived colony on Glorie circa 2044. In both cases, you'd need upgraded analogs of traditional ASC mecha; and I'm guessing that both the Super Logan and the Heavy Assault Battloid would fit the bill. (Unfortunately, I can't know for sure; I only own the original version of Return of the Masters, and so have never seen the ASC-like mecha from the revised edition.)

The Heavy Assault Battloid looks like a Salamander with missile pods spread over the frame and a jetpack on the back for airborne operations.

The Super Logan looks like a Logan and an Alpha bumped uglies and this is their offspring.

[dataweaver]

Hmm... then again, maybe not. I was hoping for something that would be to the Logan as the Macross universe's VF-11, 19, 21, etc. are to the VF-1.

[dataweaver]

FWIW, his opinion is based on dialog from the show - which makes it a strong opinion (perhaps tantamount to fact) if the subject in question is Classic Robotech.

[dataweaver]

...and current Robotech is arguably not Classic Robotech.

[dataweaver]

What am I supposed to say to that: that no, I wouldn't? You'd just take that as evidence that I would; it's a catch-22 argument.

[Jefffar]

[mod voice] Discuss the topic, not the posters or this thread ends up locked and some of the posters might find themselves banned. [/mod voice]

[taalismn]

Oh, definitely. I can think of two possibilities off the top of my head: the "revived ASC of 2050" idea that I suggested above, and the idea of an ASC-derived colony on Glorie circa 2044. In both cases, you'd need upgraded analogs of traditional ASC mecha; and I'm guessing that both the Super Logan and the Heavy Assault Battloid would fit the bill. (Unfortunately, I can't know for sure; I only own the original version of Return of the Masters, and so have never seen the ASC-like mecha from the revised edition.)

The Heavy Assault Battloid looks like a Salamander with missile pods spread over the frame and a jetpack on the back for airborne operations.

The Super Logan looks like a Logan and an Alpha bumped uglies and this is their offspring.

As long as they WORK, I ain't complaining when I'm up to my eyebrows in Invid or Bioroids...

[Aramanthus]

I still feel that they should make the book useable for each of the eras of Robotech. It is the most logical too.

[Lt Gargoyle]

I still feel that they should make the book useable for each of the eras of Robotech. It is the most logical too.

And lets not forget the profits it would generate for PB and thus we continue to have more Robotech books published.

But after this I would like to see something with the other parts of the world, such as EBSIS or even the AUL types. Random warlod adventure source books. Like the Return of the Master.

[Chris0013]

I think they need to rehash the alot of the mecha from the Strikeforce and RotM books. The Super Logan and Heavy Assault Battloind for UEDF mecha, The Striker Battloid for a AUL mecha....the Gladius with a couple changes to it (standard missiles and energy cannons in the arms instead of blades) for a AUL mecha.

[dataweaver]

I do hope that PB will eventually get an opportunity to examine the AUL. I know that Macross Zero doesn't have anything to do with Robotech; but I found it interesting how that show presented variable fighter technology as an innovation pioneered by the Anti-Unification forces and co-opted by the fledgling Unification movement. It helped present the AUL as a group with legitimate gripes rather than merely being a bunch of reactionary terrorists. If and when PB gets around to presenting the AUL, I hope that they do so in a way that is at least somewhat sympathetic, rather than presenting them as stereotypical bad guys who oppose the UEG because they like anarchy and chaos.

[glitterboy2098]

This wouldn't be a bad idea. Though, I kind of like the new idea with NO E.B.S.I.S. But I can still see a world where they might reign. The reason I have a problem with them is that....were we not all unified?

sure. in the same way the "united nations" has been "united" and "maintaining the peace" since the end of WW2...

just because there is a group that calls itself the "united earth government" doesn't nessicarily mean all it's members like each other, nor that it represents the entire earth. the UN is the "united nations", but the nations that are members largely hate each other, are always compeating to outdo the others, and in many cases, have been the groups instigating and supporting conflicts that the UN is supposed to be helping to prevent. and that doesn't include the cold war, where the warsaw pact nations were set to fight NATO and the US, despite both sides having seats in the major UN councils.

even if the UEG does have representatives from all the nations on earth, it doesn't mean that all those nations will like the UEG, will like each other, or be willing to follow everything the UEG says. and there is nothing saying that the UEG has to include every nation.

[taalismn]

Then of course, later on, even if you clear the hurdle of the 'Earth United...not!" , you then get to deal with the matter of getting the second-generation colonials to accept Earth-based leadership...or being a Terran who sees the ops to liberate your homeworld in the hands of folks who weren't born on Good 'Ol Earth...

[Lt Gargoyle]

Then of course, later on, even if you clear the hurdle of the 'Earth United...not!" , you then get to deal with the matter of getting the second-generation colonials to accept Earth-based leadership...or being a Terran who sees the ops to liberate your homeworld in the hands of folks who weren't born on Good 'Ol Earth...

This in its self could be a great idea for a source books. The characters being based around a diplomatic mission instead of combat.
However the colony could have taken the Mecha and supplies for the UEEF and sold them to a pirate or another organization seeking to better itself with whatever they feel they need. The UEEF sends in the Marines to retake the Factories only to find they have updated the defenses. Including a series of non communications satelites in orbit to handle the approuching ships. Maybe the pirates/new invester also come to the aid of the new weapon suppliers.

Dam these type of ideas get all my creative juices flowing.

[dataweaver]

You see a bit of that in Scott Bernard and Marcus Rusch - or is that Alex Romero? One of them said something to the effect of "so why are we risking our lives for Earth, anyway?"

And as of the Invid takeover, the UEG issue became a moot point.

[Lt Gargoyle]

You see a bit of that in Scott Bernard and Marcus Rusch - or is that Alex Romero? One of them said something to the effect of "so why are we risking our lives for Earth, anyway?"

And as of the Invid takeover, the UEG issue became a moot point.

And in the pilots of the Horizon-T Marlene was aboard as well.

[taalismn]

Hence the wonderful tables in TSC rule book for determing character feelings about Earth...Like British colonial troops in the world wars...
(There's actually a movie out there about the French Moroccan soldiers in WW2, from their viewpoint; it wasn't terribly well recieved whan it came out, but it might be worth a second look)

[Colonel Wolfe]

This is gonna be a Silly book.

[dataweaver]

"We're Knights of the Round Table;
We dance when we are able!
We do routines and chorus scenes..."

[taalismn]

"We're Knights of the Round Table;
We dance when we are able!
We do routines and chorus scenes..."

"We're Marines! We're Marines!
Rhymes with Gyrenes!
We fly in ships,
and carry big chips!
We're Marines! We're Marines!.."

[Lt Gargoyle]

[taalismn]

"We're Marines! We're Marines!
We don't have to dig our own latrines!
Forget all the rest,
we're simply the BEST!
We're Marines! We're Marines!"

[Aramanthus]

ROFLMAO!!! Can we have some more to this song?