Northern Gun One is Awesome (A review by popscythe)

[azazel1024]

I think the juicer auto dodge is only applicable to specific vehicles that allow it. Some of the juicer uprising vehicles I believe did allow the auto dodge from the Juicer.

For big combat robots I don't care how good of response times the pilot has a 26+ foot tall robot only moves so fast.

Unless you are a Phaeton juicer. IIRC is specifically mentions under the OCC description of a Phaeton that their autododge carries over to ANY vehicle and specifically mentions things like being able to autododge driving a tank. Normal juicers cannot autododge in a vehicle with the exception of certain very specialized ones. I think in Juicer Uprising it mentions one or two, like I think the rocket bike and the Icarus suit are two of the very few that most juicers can auto dodge when piloting.

[kaid]

Funny to think a 20ft+ tall giant robots greatest advantage against infantry is that it is hard to hit.

Well really it mostly effects power armor although some robot vehicles specially some of the NGR bots are capable of 120 + MPH speeds with super human agility due to jump jet type stuff. Take the NG gunbot it can do terrain hopper style movement at 105 MPG so ya its 20 feet tall and capable of high speed and highly erratic unpredictable changes in direction/altitude. The speed advantage is much more prounounced on the faster powered armor but still all but the real slow behemoths like the grizzly are capable of moving fast enough to generate at least moderate penalties to hit due to speed.

[kaid]

Speaking of the gunbot I was rereading the bot descriptions even the ones I had read before in previews/the prototype that I skipped past in my first read through of the full production NG1.

The Gunbot apparently now has the ability to link fire its rail gun and main energy weapon which when a target is in range of both gives it a pretty solid 2d4x10 damage main gun blast. That combined with the bust fire grenade launcher and a health amount of missiles really does give this lil bot a pretty solid punch and good amount of versatility.

I had forgotten how nasty the old source book one hunter mobile gun was. It is pretty easy to see in game lore why it is so popular. It is kind goofy looking although Chuck did a great facelift on it so the new one looks much better. It is one of the highest durability mechs in the NG line with 600 MDC main body one of the highest damage longest range guns the NG produces and for its 30+ foot size is one of the faster NG mechs at 70 MPH. I still tend to prefer things like the Gunwolf as they are less susceptible to the snipers taking out your main gun then you are SOL issue the hunter mobile gun has but it is a WAY better mech than I remembered it was and the new one is just more better. One funny thing the new one has some weapon option choices one I find both hilarious and probably effective for its stated use is an upgrade of the crotch cannon.

The new hunter has an option of a long range 200 foot or so flame thrower to replace the standard crotch weapon. Given its intent is to dissuade infantry from getting underneath the hunter mobile gun I would think a gigantic robot peeing MDC fire on you would pretty well dissuade me from going up under it.

[Hotrod]

Only in Rifts could pee like burning be a good thing.

[Pepsi Jedi]

I'm having memories of Eddy Murphy on stage in reference to that.

[kaid]

I saw that and snorted a crotch mounted flame thrower haha ok. But really if your intent is to keep things away from your feet a flame thrower in that position would likely be a more effective tool than the standard gun frankly if you are willing to do some damage to your own feet and its legs are pretty heavily armored you could make any attempt to get underneath the mech a total death trap.

[SAMASzero]

For the most part, I love this book. A few notes though:

I assume NG 2 is gonna have the Power Armor and vehicles. Just make sure you get some tanks in there, because that's a market that's been wide open ever since IHA got put down. I also hope for some Wellington stuff as well. Maybe they're branching out with some old-fashioned wheeled bikes, buggies and ATVs.

Still not keen on man-portable MDC railguns. Seems to me that anything slinging enough KE to inflict Mega-Damage would throw back enough recoil to break the arm of any normal human/D-Bee firing it. Nonetheless, I love the bangsticks.

I love the fluff on Ishpeming itself. I've been waiting on that for years.

Chuck, awesome mechs once again. Especially love the Gun-mechs.

[kaid]

For the most part, I love this book. A few notes though:

I assume NG 2 is gonna have the Power Armor and vehicles. Just make sure you get some tanks in there, because that's a market that's been wide open ever since IHA got put down. I also hope for some Wellington stuff as well. Maybe they're branching out with some old-fashioned wheeled bikes, buggies and ATVs.

Still not keen on man-portable MDC railguns. Seems to me that anything slinging enough KE to inflict Mega-Damage would throw back enough recoil to break the arm of any normal human/D-Bee firing it. Nonetheless, I love the bangsticks.

I love the fluff on Ishpeming itself. I've been waiting on that for years.

Chuck, awesome mechs once again. Especially love the Gun-mechs.

Yes in theory NG2 is power armor/vehicles/drones and robo gladiators. I am assuming since NG1 had most of the background lore stuff NG2 is probably going to be more of a toy box than NG1 was which is fine with me the pair will be super useful together.

[Premier]

I love NG1. Congrats on another great publication Palladium.

I gotta say if you've ever felt like giant robots, mecha, whatever you call them, needed to be fleshed out in Rifts this is totally your book. All of the new robots feel powerful and threatening without being unbalanced, instead of feeling like all of these robots are have just been made better than the older bots, it feels like bots themselves have been addressed in more detail and have come along in packing an appropriate amount of armor and firepower for their size.

For the robot jockey in me, this is a great addition as not only are there a ton of great new bots (I really do like the new designs a great deal), but there are so many that as a GM it gives me a good range of prices, armor and armament to consider designing my own material for campaigns based on. The book very nicely addresses the difference between old and new NG technology and gives different statistics for new revisions of certain things, like how some weapons have been redesigned to weigh less over time and etc. I don't want to give too much away because reading this one is really a treat, but suffice to say there is a ton of great stuff in this book!

I must say Popscythe, I was saddened to see that my previous post that I thought had been submitted had not uploaded (thinking my pc timed out) and that it is now that I am retyping a response to your opening post, but I much rather be late than never.

So I am thrilled to say and read your response and support for NG1!!!! WE wanted NG to bring that raw, heavy hardware feeling that many of us mech fans so… enjoy and seek. I hope we achieved this as part of our objectives for NG1. Many designs, discussion and time went into the overall development of NG Mecha behind the scenes. WE had to preserve the hierarchy of technology in RIFTS NA and yet demonstrate the technological advancement across the time span from the original NG releases and the modern NG tech. Trust me no easy task for Matthew or Kevin to handle, as I pummeled them with new questions and ideas to sift. The results however, have me a very pleased camper as both as a participant on this enjoyable book and as a gamer. I can now imagine the Wilderness with bandits, bounty hunters, mercenary companies and who knows what else piloting various Giant robot/mech forces and the battles that might play out. Its not just the giant sized monsters that a campaign has to be concerned about to warrant the need for giant robots, it’s the other characters who have exposure to the same equipment/toys and then some. Epic battles between giant robot vehicles can indeed shape a new style of gameplay and the setting as we know it. Yeah it may be a little hard to swallow the power scheme of these robots in comparison to their smaller brethren, but when comparing them on the other side of the fence and in numbers and deadly opposition, things become all to serious very quickly. A pack of Gunwolves as a dark opportunistic mercenary company joined with some power armors, Mega bots and customized Grizzlies or an assault force consisting of various giant robots and full conversion Cyborgs and TW enhanced mecha seeking to usurp a camp of players of their most prized goods, is a formidable force to contend with and it will draw a lot of attention if it plays out for long. And that’s just playing it fair, not even with a wicked GM at the helm. I long for the day when I can read or witness a Gunwolf pack battle! NG2 will really make this enthusiasm boil.

All the art is great. Mr. Walton, well done, sir, your stuff really makes the book shine. There is other great art in it as well from other great artists, but Walton really takes the prize on this one.

Thank You so much! I am glad to have been a contributor for this epic and long awaited title and I hope it proves its worth in gaming. I am so proud of the Artists and the Writers for this book, and we all shined together, imho.

Make the Call (Is Rifts World Book 33: Northern Gun One Worth Buying?): Absolutely. It's an instant classic. If it had been released as World Book 3 instead of 33, Rifts would have grown and shaped differently, that's how good it is. With NG1 by your side, you can fill your world with combat robots. Not just merc bots, high tech bandits and CS bots, but real-feeling, front line combat robots that say "These are the droids'Bots you're looking for."

I wholeheartedly agree and hope that GMs will seed their campaigns well with the thunderous mechs, even if the players opt to not use them, let them be encountered in support and in opposition or even as story aspects to help sculpt the world of RIFTS. Lets see how players would attempt to disguise themselves and rob a NG hovertrain for a special ops mission or protect a deep nested compound from the onslaught of a robot assault force.

Now then, if you'll excuse me, I need to get back to writing my new Northern Gun campaign. Mecha-sized flamethrowers, dudes! *woooooosh*

Oh…mannn… What ya got cookin?

[Premier]

now I find myself wondering if a juicers auto-dodge can be applied to the robot its piloting... Gun-Wolf + Juicer crew =

Now that is just nasty… Gotta like it! I can easily envision a terrible mauling and man handling of a power armor or robot vehicle unfortunate to get caught by such a twisted concoction.

Just how many of them are lurking out there is the question and who do they work for?

[Premier]

I have to agree with popscythe, this is a sweet book.

It has been a long time since I have played any tabletop RPGs but I picked up NG1 at Detroit Fanfare a couple weeks ago and it definitely rekindled my love of Rifts and RPGs in general. There are a lot of cool bots and guns to be sure, but I am really impressed by the write up about Ishpeming and the NG as a corporate state and how it functions. As a player this is definitley a part of North America I have been wanted to be fleshed out in a source book for a long time!
Chuck Walton and Ben Rodriquez and all the other artists did a beautiful job with this thing, the wrap around cover is fantastic. No offense to the good folks at Palladium, but the fact that there isn't an advertizement on the back cover just made me love this thing a lot more.

In game mechanics I know how often we complain about power creep in Rifts sourcebooks, but honestly looking at NG1, a lot of the combat 'bots have comparatively low MDC for their size, which actually makes sense to me. The Northern Gun as a company doesn't have the same level of tech as the CS or Triax, or ARCHIE 3 in terms of developing armor.

For example the UAR-1 (a 20 year old CS design) in RUE has a 350 MDC main body and is 19 ft tall. The more modern CS Hellraiser in CWC has 690 MDC and is only 18 ft tall.
By comparison most of the NG bots in the new book in the same size range have main body MDCs that are more on par with the UAR-1, wich makes total sense as the NG is stated to be 12-15 years behind the CS in technological development.

So while the book has lots and lots of cool new gear, vehicles and bots, they aren't overpowerful and in the game world it makes sense why. That being said there are some nice variations and unique features to most of things in the book, which is nice to see. I am excited to see what NG2 brings.

Thanks J_Cobbers,

Glad you were able to make it to Detroit Fan Fare and certainly thrilled you got a copy of NG1 and were pleased with its results! Rekindling a love for RIFTS is music to our ears and eyes as we read this. I agree the write up and setting is really golden and well done. Major KUDOS to Matthew Clemens, Kevin Siemdieda, Braden Cambell and Carmen Bellaire for their awesome contributions!

I also salute the Artist production team that did a fantastic job with this title and I thank you for ur kind and supportive words! The wraparound cover turned out well and I am glad it paid off.

[Premier]

Speaking of the gunbot I was rereading the bot descriptions even the ones I had read before in previews/the prototype that I skipped past in my first read through of the full production NG1.

The Gunbot apparently now has the ability to link fire its rail gun and main energy weapon which when a target is in range of both gives it a pretty solid 2d4x10 damage main gun blast. That combined with the bust fire grenade launcher and a health amount of missiles really does give this lil bot a pretty solid punch and good amount of versatility.

GREAT observation once again Kaid!! This makes attacking a Gunbots very challenging and a risk, but it gets much worse if its multiple Gunbots on patrol or sequencing a perimeter. Even worse if they are being fed a relay of the incoming enemies from one of the larger gun platforms such as a Bigfoot or two. This is why it is important to preserve the giant robot damage output as things like this could get real… nasty and down right unenjoyable for players if flushed or ambushed into a Gunbot/BigFoot/Megabot/Hunter killing zone.

I had forgotten how nasty the old source book one hunter mobile gun was. It is pretty easy to see in game lore why it is so popular. It is kind goofy looking although Chuck did a great facelift on it so the new one looks much better. It is one of the highest durability mechs in the NG line with 600 MDC main body one of the highest damage longest range guns the NG produces and for its 30+ foot size is one of the faster NG mechs at 70 MPH. I still tend to prefer things like the Gunwolf as they are less susceptible to the snipers taking out your main gun then you are SOL issue the hunter mobile gun has but it is a WAY better mech than I remembered it was and the new one is just more better. One funny thing the new one has some weapon option choices one I find both hilarious and probably effective for its stated use is an upgrade of the crotch cannon.

The new hunter has an option of a long range 200 foot or so flame thrower to replace the standard crotch weapon. Given its intent is to dissuade infantry from getting underneath the hunter mobile gun I would think a gigantic robot peeing MDC fire on you would pretty well dissuade me from going up under it.

Glad you like the facelifted Hunter! Ya just have to flow with the crotch gun idea in some cases I guess, but yeah that Robot can dole out some nice punishment and has some considerable speed and durability worth noting if engaging. Encountering robots like this, I think we often tend to size them up individually, but when considering them being among an opposing company of other units (various power armors, full conversion cyborgs and robot vehicles), all seeking to pound you and your platoon of players, I wonder then do players still discount the damage each individual unit dishes out?

[Premier]

For the most part, I love this book. A few notes though:

I assume NG 2 is gonna have the Power Armor and vehicles. Just make sure you get some tanks in there, because that's a market that's been wide open ever since IHA got put down. I also hope for some Wellington stuff as well. Maybe they're branching out with some old-fashioned wheeled bikes, buggies and ATVs.

Still not keen on man-portable MDC railguns. Seems to me that anything slinging enough KE to inflict Mega-Damage would throw back enough recoil to break the arm of any normal human/D-Bee firing it. Nonetheless, I love the bangsticks.

I love the fluff on Ishpeming itself. I've been waiting on that for years.

Chuck, awesome mechs once again. Especially love the Gun-mechs.

Thanks a to SAMASzero! Man I like that name!!!
I had a lot of fun working with the Palladium team on designing these robots. There is so much still yet to be revealed, I am just anxious to see what will make the cut and what will be sandbagged for later productions.

Indeed NG2 will entail the Power Armors and vehicles, BTW, we have some tanks/ATVs, but I am curious just how many tanks do you need to be happy? lol

[popscythe]

Spoiler:

I love NG1. Congrats on another great publication Palladium.

I gotta say if you've ever felt like giant robots, mecha, whatever you call them, needed to be fleshed out in Rifts this is totally your book. All of the new robots feel powerful and threatening without being unbalanced, instead of feeling like all of these robots are have just been made better than the older bots, it feels like bots themselves have been addressed in more detail and have come along in packing an appropriate amount of armor and firepower for their size.

For the robot jockey in me, this is a great addition as not only are there a ton of great new bots (I really do like the new designs a great deal), but there are so many that as a GM it gives me a good range of prices, armor and armament to consider designing my own material for campaigns based on. The book very nicely addresses the difference between old and new NG technology and gives different statistics for new revisions of certain things, like how some weapons have been redesigned to weigh less over time and etc. I don't want to give too much away because reading this one is really a treat, but suffice to say there is a ton of great stuff in this book!

I must say Popscythe, I was saddened to see that my previous post that I thought had been submitted had not uploaded (thinking my pc timed out) and that it is now that I am retyping a response to your opening post, but I much rather be late than never.

So I am thrilled to say and read your response and support for NG1!!!! WE wanted NG to bring that raw, heavy hardware feeling that many of us mech fans so… enjoy and seek. I hope we achieved this as part of our objectives for NG1. Many designs, discussion and time went into the overall development of NG Mecha behind the scenes. WE had to preserve the hierarchy of technology in RIFTS NA and yet demonstrate the technological advancement across the time span from the original NG releases and the modern NG tech. Trust me no easy task for Matthew or Kevin to handle, as I pummeled them with new questions and ideas to sift. The results however, have me a very pleased camper as both as a participant on this enjoyable book and as a gamer. I can now imagine the Wilderness with bandits, bounty hunters, mercenary companies and who knows what else piloting various Giant robot/mech forces and the battles that might play out. Its not just the giant sized monsters that a campaign has to be concerned about to warrant the need for giant robots, it’s the other characters who have exposure to the same equipment/toys and then some. Epic battles between giant robot vehicles can indeed shape a new style of gameplay and the setting as we know it. Yeah it may be a little hard to swallow the power scheme of these robots in comparison to their smaller brethren, but when comparing them on the other side of the fence and in numbers and deadly opposition, things become all to serious very quickly. A pack of Gunwolves as a dark opportunistic mercenary company joined with some power armors, Mega bots and customized Grizzlies or an assault force consisting of various giant robots and full conversion Cyborgs and TW enhanced mecha seeking to usurp a camp of players of their most prized goods, is a formidable force to contend with and it will draw a lot of attention if it plays out for long. And that’s just playing it fair, not even with a wicked GM at the helm. I long for the day when I can read or witness a Gunwolf pack battle! NG2 will really make this enthusiasm boil.

All the art is great. Mr. Walton, well done, sir, your stuff really makes the book shine. There is other great art in it as well from other great artists, but Walton really takes the prize on this one.

Thank You so much!

No, thank you for the reply, sir. It is very exciting and encouraging to see you replying directly to reviews. The work you do is excellent and Palladium is lucky to have you. Thanks for everything.

Spoiler:

I am glad to have been a contributor for this epic and long awaited title and I hope it proves its worth in gaming. I am so proud of the Artists and the Writers for this book, and we all shined together, imho.

Make the Call (Is Rifts World Book 33: Northern Gun One Worth Buying?): Absolutely. It's an instant classic. If it had been released as World Book 3 instead of 33, Rifts would have grown and shaped differently, that's how good it is. With NG1 by your side, you can fill your world with combat robots. Not just merc bots, high tech bandits and CS bots, but real-feeling, front line combat robots that say "These are the droids'Bots you're looking for."

I wholeheartedly agree and hope that GMs will seed their campaigns well with the thunderous mechs, even if the players opt to not use them, let them be encountered in support and in opposition or even as story aspects to help sculpt the world of RIFTS. Lets see how players would attempt to disguise themselves and rob a NG hovertrain for a special ops mission or protect a deep nested compound from the onslaught of a robot assault force.

Now then, if you'll excuse me, I need to get back to writing my new Northern Gun campaign. Mecha-sized flamethrowers, dudes! *woooooosh*

Oh…mannn… What ya got cookin?

Since I posted this, I've had a lot of time to think about my NG campaign and it's really coming together. I'd love to share information about it with someone who's work I respect so much, but I can't post it here, lest players receive spoilers! If you really want to hear about some old hack's campaign ideas, I'd be happy to PM you about it.

Thanks again for the reply, sir. Made my morning. Keep up the good work!

[kaid]

For the most part, I love this book. A few notes though:

I assume NG 2 is gonna have the Power Armor and vehicles. Just make sure you get some tanks in there, because that's a market that's been wide open ever since IHA got put down. I also hope for some Wellington stuff as well. Maybe they're branching out with some old-fashioned wheeled bikes, buggies and ATVs.

Still not keen on man-portable MDC railguns. Seems to me that anything slinging enough KE to inflict Mega-Damage would throw back enough recoil to break the arm of any normal human/D-Bee firing it. Nonetheless, I love the bangsticks.

I love the fluff on Ishpeming itself. I've been waiting on that for years.

Chuck, awesome mechs once again. Especially love the Gun-mechs.

Thanks a to SAMASzero! Man I like that name!!!
I had a lot of fun working with the Palladium team on designing these robots. There is so much still yet to be revealed, I am just anxious to see what will make the cut and what will be sandbagged for later productions.

Indeed NG2 will entail the Power Armors and vehicles, BTW, we have some tanks/ATVs, but I am curious just how many tanks do you need to be happy? lol

Honestly other than a heavy tank ground tank heavy hover tank and maybe the same for light tanks I would almost prefer most of the vehicles of utility/transportation needs. For tanks really you are likely to have one maybe to main tanks fitting a particular role or perhaps a modular turret platform so your chasis can do MBT roles and missile battery/artillery jobs.

I would imagine they probably will have some tracked tanks but given NG's tech level I would assume most of their slow heavy armor role will be held by robot vehicles. Hover tanks are likely where the bulk of ground vehicle combat power for NG would be as their high speed and all terrain capability would help their usefulness/survivability when pitted against the big iron of the heavy combat bots.

Still probably at least have a few tracked designs for the cost concious shoppers especially now that iron heart armaments is under "new ownership".

[Hotrod]

While I agree that there shouldn't be more than a few types of tanks, most laymen tend to see any heavy armored vehicle with a gun on top and call it "a tank".

Tanks tend to be heavy, armored direct-fire hitters with a relatively small crew (typically 3-4) who don't dismount to fight. Historically, they tended to come in light versions, which are usually fast and easier to move around the battlefield, heavy versions, which have more armor and firepower, and medium versions, which are a compromise between light and heavy characteristics. Many modern tanks combine the capabilities of the light and heavy at the cost of very high fuel consumption rates. Though there are occasional engineer variants that can move dirt, bust bunkers, and do some fighting, there don't tend to be a lot of variants, just incremental improvements and newer models.

Infantry Fighting Vehicles are armored vehicles that are designed to move infantry in armored protection, deploy them, and support them with heavy weapons (usually not as heavy as a tank's main gun). They come in tracked, wheeled, and amphibious versions (presumably hover as well in Rifts). These vehicles tend to have many different versions, including command and control, mobile mortar battery, anti-aircraft, ambulance, and other roles.

Self-propelled artillery like the US Army's Paladin have big guns that are usually used for indirect fire, lobbing big projectiles or rockets high up, and raining death down on the enemy. Though they're armored against smaller weapons, they don't have the protection of a tank and aren't meant to serve as a primary front-line weapon system. These vehicles don't tend to have many variants much beyond incremental improvements. They usually drive around with an armored ammunition supply vehicle, too.

Recovery vehicles are meant to provide a protected way to rescue disabled vehicles that break down, get stuck, or are damaged/destroyed. They tend to be lightly armed, but have plenty of lifting/pulling power, and pretty solid armor. There don't tend to be many variants of recovery vehicles.

I've seen civilians point at all of the above vehicle types and call them "tanks", and they may look superficially similar, but they are very different vehicles with very different roles. Each could have its own chassis and variants in NG2, with options for propulsion, powerplants, and weapon/hardpoint options.

[Pepsi Jedi]

While I agree that there shouldn't be more than a few types of tanks, most laymen tend to see any heavy armored vehicle with a gun on top and call it "a tank".

Tanks tend to be heavy, armored direct-fire hitters with a relatively small crew (typically 3-4) who don't dismount to fight. Historically, they tended to come in light versions, which are usually fast and easier to move around the battlefield, heavy versions, which have more armor and firepower, and medium versions, which are a compromise between light and heavy characteristics. Many modern tanks combine the capabilities of the light and heavy at the cost of very high fuel consumption rates. Though there are occasional engineer variants that can move dirt, bust bunkers, and do some fighting, there don't tend to be a lot of variants, just incremental improvements and newer models.

Infantry Fighting Vehicles are armored vehicles that are designed to move infantry in armored protection, deploy them, and support them with heavy weapons (usually not as heavy as a tank's main gun). They come in tracked, wheeled, and amphibious versions (presumably hover as well in Rifts). These vehicles tend to have many different versions, including command and control, mobile mortar battery, anti-aircraft, ambulance, and other roles.

Self-propelled artillery like the US Army's Paladin have big guns that are usually used for indirect fire, lobbing big projectiles or rockets high up, and raining death down on the enemy. Though they're armored against smaller weapons, they don't have the protection of a tank and aren't meant to serve as a primary front-line weapon system. These vehicles don't tend to have many variants much beyond incremental improvements. They usually drive around with an armored ammunition supply vehicle, too.

Recovery vehicles are meant to provide a protected way to rescue disabled vehicles that break down, get stuck, or are damaged/destroyed. They tend to be lightly armed, but have plenty of lifting/pulling power, and pretty solid armor. There don't tend to be many variants of recovery vehicles.

I've seen civilians point at all of the above vehicle types and call them "tanks", and they may look superficially similar, but they are very different vehicles with very different roles. Each could have its own chassis and variants in NG2, with options for propulsion, powerplants, and weapon/hardpoint options.

You're not wrong.

But the average person doesn't overly care.

I do. You do. Most people how ever are content to call um tanks and lump um together.
More over Palladium are --not-- military guys. They're some geeky guys that get their 'military' knowledge from movies and tv and what sounds cool.
More over than that. In rifts. All those roles can be handled by Robot Vehicles. (Save maybe troop transport and they can do that too. But Few come to mind that do it specificly. The Behemoths and such), and the Robot vehicles usually have more 'utility.'

You're honestly not wrong. It's just that once you get to 'mecha/robot vehicles', all those classes tend to get folded in. Sure some robots specialize in artillery, some are more light fast moving front line combat. some are bigger, heavier sluggers, but they all -are- kinda lumped together.

As for ---TANK---- Tanks.. they're kinda obsolete, if your force can afford/construct the robot vechiles. Not totally, but anything a tank can do, a Robot vechile can also do, usually with more mobility and agility.

Tanks still have their uses, but in most cases, if it's tank vs robot combat vehicle that holds the same 'nitch' the robot vehicle is going to out maneuver the tank and have an upper hand. (Not always. Sometimes it's a hovor tank or something and may be zipping around fast and shreddin'.)

[kaid]

The main advantage of tracked tanks is cost. They are have reasonable survivability typically at a much reduced price over a robot vehicle. Good merc groups city/states that are either poor or just starting up. Given NG does specialize in work horse type stuff I am sure they do have some tracked/wheeled tanks/apc/infantry fighting vehicles for entry level folks especially since with IHA getting owned by the CS there is a bigger opening for sales in that part of the market.

Still IHA specialized in tanks because it lacked the tech to make good robots/power armor. Since NG does not have that same lack I see more of their vehicle lines being fast hover vehicles like the combat speeder from the multibot upgrade. Reasonably heavy armor on a fast, mobile agile frame. Leave the ground slogging heavy hitting heavy armor to the robot vehicles.

I also expect to see a lot of the vehicle "tank busters" to be in the lines of the sky king and variants of that.

[torjones]

While I agree that there shouldn't be more than a few types of tanks, most laymen tend to see any heavy armored vehicle with a gun on top and call it "a tank".

Not that I'm disagreeing with any particular thing you've said Hotrod, but I think that at least part of where the confusion from the Civilian Layman comes from is that the dictionary definition of Tank is very different from the one that the military chooses to use.

An armored, self-propelled combat vehicle, armed with cannon and machine guns and moving on a caterpillar tread.

A Tank is designed to advance and attack in support of infantry.

Given that the military uses this definition to include things like the Abrams, T-80, and Merkava, yet exclude vehicles like the Bradley and the BMP, some how, given that all five vehicles appear to fit both definitions, it really seems to be a case of "Because we said so." Not to confuse the issue further, but all militaries consider the Merkava a Main Battle Tank, yet it also carries a squad of infantry like an APC/IFV.

[Hotrod]

Regarding the Merkava, the tank's internal magazine doubles as an optional passenger compartment, so while it can carry up to six passengers (a small squad), it must remove 12 rounds of main gun ammunition per passenger to do so. In this way, it can blur the line between tank and infantry fighting vehicle, but it must compromise its fighting ability as a tank to do so.

[torjones]

Regarding the Merkava, the tank's internal magazine doubles as an optional passenger compartment, so while it can carry up to six passengers (a small squad), it must remove 12 rounds of main gun ammunition per passenger to do so. In this way, it can blur the line between tank and infantry fighting vehicle, but it must compromise its fighting ability as a tank to do so.

Like I said, nice and blurry...

[Premier]

Spoiler:

I love NG1. Congrats on another great publication Palladium.

I gotta say if you've ever felt like giant robots, mecha, whatever you call them, needed to be fleshed out in Rifts this is totally your book. All of the new robots feel powerful and threatening without being unbalanced, instead of feeling like all of these robots are have just been made better than the older bots, it feels like bots themselves have been addressed in more detail and have come along in packing an appropriate amount of armor and firepower for their size.

For the robot jockey in me, this is a great addition as not only are there a ton of great new bots (I really do like the new designs a great deal), but there are so many that as a GM it gives me a good range of prices, armor and armament to consider designing my own material for campaigns based on. The book very nicely addresses the difference between old and new NG technology and gives different statistics for new revisions of certain things, like how some weapons have been redesigned to weigh less over time and etc. I don't want to give too much away because reading this one is really a treat, but suffice to say there is a ton of great stuff in this book!

I must say Popscythe, I was saddened to see that my previous post that I thought had been submitted had not uploaded (thinking my pc timed out) and that it is now that I am retyping a response to your opening post, but I much rather be late than never.

So I am thrilled to say and read your response and support for NG1!!!! WE wanted NG to bring that raw, heavy hardware feeling that many of us mech fans so… enjoy and seek. I hope we achieved this as part of our objectives for NG1. Many designs, discussion and time went into the overall development of NG Mecha behind the scenes. WE had to preserve the hierarchy of technology in RIFTS NA and yet demonstrate the technological advancement across the time span from the original NG releases and the modern NG tech. Trust me no easy task for Matthew or Kevin to handle, as I pummeled them with new questions and ideas to sift. The results however, have me a very pleased camper as both as a participant on this enjoyable book and as a gamer. I can now imagine the Wilderness with bandits, bounty hunters, mercenary companies and who knows what else piloting various Giant robot/mech forces and the battles that might play out. Its not just the giant sized monsters that a campaign has to be concerned about to warrant the need for giant robots, it’s the other characters who have exposure to the same equipment/toys and then some. Epic battles between giant robot vehicles can indeed shape a new style of gameplay and the setting as we know it. Yeah it may be a little hard to swallow the power scheme of these robots in comparison to their smaller brethren, but when comparing them on the other side of the fence and in numbers and deadly opposition, things become all to serious very quickly. A pack of Gunwolves as a dark opportunistic mercenary company joined with some power armors, Mega bots and customized Grizzlies or an assault force consisting of various giant robots and full conversion Cyborgs and TW enhanced mecha seeking to usurp a camp of players of their most prized goods, is a formidable force to contend with and it will draw a lot of attention if it plays out for long. And that’s just playing it fair, not even with a wicked GM at the helm. I long for the day when I can read or witness a Gunwolf pack battle! NG2 will really make this enthusiasm boil.

All the art is great. Mr. Walton, well done, sir, your stuff really makes the book shine. There is other great art in it as well from other great artists, but Walton really takes the prize on this one.

Thank You so much!

No, thank you for the reply, sir. It is very exciting and encouraging to see you replying directly to reviews. The work you do is excellent and Palladium is lucky to have you. Thanks for everything.

Hey, I'm glad to enjoy healthy discussions and we freelancers too are fans first before contributor/freelancer on most of the IPs we work on. I thank you for the compliments and glad to be a part of the PB team.

Spoiler:

I am glad to have been a contributor for this epic and long awaited title and I hope it proves its worth in gaming. I am so proud of the Artists and the Writers for this book, and we all shined together, imho.

Make the Call (Is Rifts World Book 33: Northern Gun One Worth Buying?): Absolutely. It's an instant classic. If it had been released as World Book 3 instead of 33, Rifts would have grown and shaped differently, that's how good it is. With NG1 by your side, you can fill your world with combat robots. Not just merc bots, high tech bandits and CS bots, but real-feeling, front line combat robots that say "These are the droids'Bots you're looking for."

I wholeheartedly agree and hope that GMs will seed their campaigns well with the thunderous mechs, even if the players opt to not use them, let them be encountered in support and in opposition or even as story aspects to help sculpt the world of RIFTS. Lets see how players would attempt to disguise themselves and rob a NG hovertrain for a special ops mission or protect a deep nested compound from the onslaught of a robot assault force.

Now then, if you'll excuse me, I need to get back to writing my new Northern Gun campaign. Mecha-sized flamethrowers, dudes! *woooooosh*

Oh…mannn… What ya got cookin?

Since I posted this, I've had a lot of time to think about my NG campaign and it's really coming together. I'd love to share information about it with someone who's work I respect so much, but I can't post it here, lest players receive spoilers! If you really want to hear about some old hack's campaign ideas, I'd be happy to PM you about it.

Thanks again for the reply, sir. Made my morning. Keep up the good work!

As a long term GM, I can easily relate to avoidance of revealing your campaign ideas publicly, and I would be glad to review your campaign outline and share what I can via PMs. Cheers!

[Premier]

For the most part, I love this book. A few notes though:

I assume NG 2 is gonna have the Power Armor and vehicles. Just make sure you get some tanks in there, because that's a market that's been wide open ever since IHA got put down. I also hope for some Wellington stuff as well. Maybe they're branching out with some old-fashioned wheeled bikes, buggies and ATVs.

Still not keen on man-portable MDC railguns. Seems to me that anything slinging enough KE to inflict Mega-Damage would throw back enough recoil to break the arm of any normal human/D-Bee firing it. Nonetheless, I love the bangsticks.

I love the fluff on Ishpeming itself. I've been waiting on that for years.

Chuck, awesome mechs once again. Especially love the Gun-mechs.

Thanks a to SAMASzero! Man I like that name!!!
I had a lot of fun working with the Palladium team on designing these robots. There is so much still yet to be revealed, I am just anxious to see what will make the cut and what will be sandbagged for later productions.

Indeed NG2 will entail the Power Armors and vehicles, BTW, we have some tanks/ATVs, but I am curious just how many tanks do you need to be happy? lol

Honestly other than a heavy tank ground tank heavy hover tank and maybe the same for light tanks I would almost prefer most of the vehicles of utility/transportation needs. For tanks really you are likely to have one maybe to main tanks fitting a particular role or perhaps a modular turret platform so your chasis can do MBT roles and missile battery/artillery jobs.

I would imagine they probably will have some tracked tanks but given NG's tech level I would assume most of their slow heavy armor role will be held by robot vehicles. Hover tanks are likely where the bulk of ground vehicle combat power for NG would be as their high speed and all terrain capability would help their usefulness/survivability when pitted against the big iron of the heavy combat bots.

Still probably at least have a few tracked designs for the cost concious shoppers especially now that iron heart armaments is under "new ownership".

I think what we have brewing may satisfy the tank desire, I hope. Now I am not sure how many tanks will make the final edit as NG2 has a ton of material to embrace. I hope that some of the innovations imputed into the tank genre secure their place for RIFTS, because some of these items are so... befitting for this harsh setting.

[Premier]

While I agree that there shouldn't be more than a few types of tanks, most laymen tend to see any heavy armored vehicle with a gun on top and call it "a tank".

Tanks tend to be heavy, armored direct-fire hitters with a relatively small crew (typically 3-4) who don't dismount to fight. Historically, they tended to come in light versions, which are usually fast and easier to move around the battlefield, heavy versions, which have more armor and firepower, and medium versions, which are a compromise between light and heavy characteristics. Many modern tanks combine the capabilities of the light and heavy at the cost of very high fuel consumption rates. Though there are occasional engineer variants that can move dirt, bust bunkers, and do some fighting, there don't tend to be a lot of variants, just incremental improvements and newer models.

Infantry Fighting Vehicles are armored vehicles that are designed to move infantry in armored protection, deploy them, and support them with heavy weapons (usually not as heavy as a tank's main gun). They come in tracked, wheeled, and amphibious versions (presumably hover as well in Rifts). These vehicles tend to have many different versions, including command and control, mobile mortar battery, anti-aircraft, ambulance, and other roles.

Self-propelled artillery like the US Army's Paladin have big guns that are usually used for indirect fire, lobbing big projectiles or rockets high up, and raining death down on the enemy. Though they're armored against smaller weapons, they don't have the protection of a tank and aren't meant to serve as a primary front-line weapon system. These vehicles don't tend to have many variants much beyond incremental improvements. They usually drive around with an armored ammunition supply vehicle, too.

Recovery vehicles are meant to provide a protected way to rescue disabled vehicles that break down, get stuck, or are damaged/destroyed. They tend to be lightly armed, but have plenty of lifting/pulling power, and pretty solid armor. There don't tend to be many variants of recovery vehicles.

I've seen civilians point at all of the above vehicle types and call them "tanks", and they may look superficially similar, but they are very different vehicles with very different roles. Each could have its own chassis and variants in NG2, with options for propulsion, powerplants, and weapon/hardpoint options.

You're not wrong.

But the average person doesn't overly care.

I do. You do. Most people how ever are content to call um tanks and lump um together.
More over Palladium are --not-- military guys. They're some geeky guys that get their 'military' knowledge from movies and tv and what sounds cool.

I have to say, that while everyone at Palladiumbook is not the most military savvy, there are several that are quite well versed and one being a veteran, plus multiple freelancers who are veterans and experienced military personnel. This is not to mention the plethora of military information and references that is compiled into a wonderful library with a ton of material and up to date reading on military equipment, weapons, vehicles, practices, of all eras. The issue I think is the conversion from military knowledge into an RPG that must preserve long term playability and provide entertainment. No one knows truly how many military ideas or questions have been raised or proposed with PB that get shot down not because they aren't practical, useful, cool or in use with modern technology, but simply because they can drastically augment the game mechanics and or overall fun for gamers.

More over than that. In rifts. All those roles can be handled by Robot Vehicles. (Save maybe troop transport and they can do that too. But Few come to mind that do it specificly. The Behemoths and such), and the Robot vehicles usually have more 'utility.'

You're honestly not wrong. It's just that once you get to 'mecha/robot vehicles', all those classes tend to get folded in. Sure some robots specialize in artillery, some are more light fast moving front line combat. some are bigger, heavier sluggers, but they all -are- kinda lumped together.

As for ---TANK---- Tanks.. they're kinda obsolete, if your force can afford/construct the robot vechiles. Not totally, but anything a tank can do, a Robot vechile can also do, usually with more mobility and agility.

Tanks still have their uses, but in most cases, if it's tank vs robot combat vehicle that holds the same 'nitch' the robot vehicle is going to out maneuver the tank and have an upper hand. (Not always. Sometimes it's a hovor tank or something and may be zipping around fast and shreddin'.)

Yeah, this was my personal initial concern, but with comprehensive analysis and brainstorming, I think there is a niche that some of these tank designs will fulfill that allow the tanks to earn their keep in the industry and the field. Lets just say we are talking RIFTS tanks. I just hope they all make it into NG2 and not get snatched up by other future IPs.

[Pepsi Jedi]

While I agree that there shouldn't be more than a few types of tanks, most laymen tend to see any heavy armored vehicle with a gun on top and call it "a tank".

Tanks tend to be heavy, armored direct-fire hitters with a relatively small crew (typically 3-4) who don't dismount to fight. Historically, they tended to come in light versions, which are usually fast and easier to move around the battlefield, heavy versions, which have more armor and firepower, and medium versions, which are a compromise between light and heavy characteristics. Many modern tanks combine the capabilities of the light and heavy at the cost of very high fuel consumption rates. Though there are occasional engineer variants that can move dirt, bust bunkers, and do some fighting, there don't tend to be a lot of variants, just incremental improvements and newer models.

Infantry Fighting Vehicles are armored vehicles that are designed to move infantry in armored protection, deploy them, and support them with heavy weapons (usually not as heavy as a tank's main gun). They come in tracked, wheeled, and amphibious versions (presumably hover as well in Rifts). These vehicles tend to have many different versions, including command and control, mobile mortar battery, anti-aircraft, ambulance, and other roles.

Self-propelled artillery like the US Army's Paladin have big guns that are usually used for indirect fire, lobbing big projectiles or rockets high up, and raining death down on the enemy. Though they're armored against smaller weapons, they don't have the protection of a tank and aren't meant to serve as a primary front-line weapon system. These vehicles don't tend to have many variants much beyond incremental improvements. They usually drive around with an armored ammunition supply vehicle, too.

Recovery vehicles are meant to provide a protected way to rescue disabled vehicles that break down, get stuck, or are damaged/destroyed. They tend to be lightly armed, but have plenty of lifting/pulling power, and pretty solid armor. There don't tend to be many variants of recovery vehicles.

I've seen civilians point at all of the above vehicle types and call them "tanks", and they may look superficially similar, but they are very different vehicles with very different roles. Each could have its own chassis and variants in NG2, with options for propulsion, powerplants, and weapon/hardpoint options.

You're not wrong.

But the average person doesn't overly care.

I do. You do. Most people how ever are content to call um tanks and lump um together.
More over Palladium are --not-- military guys. They're some geeky guys that get their 'military' knowledge from movies and tv and what sounds cool.

I have to say, that while everyone at Palladiumbook is not the most military savvy, there are several that are quite well versed and one being a veteran,

This has --not-- been my experience, and in the books you seldom see 'real world' stuff past the vietnam era. Combined with books like the SoT and how 'militarys' act, in Palladium books, it doesn't indicate "Well versed" in any way, shape or form.

plus multiple freelancers who are veterans and experienced military personnel.

That may be so, but such things don't make it into the books for the most part. Again, if you look for 'modern' military things, they top out at or around Vietnam war era. Then they pretty much jump to "Rifts" level.

This is not to mention the plethora of military information and references that is compiled into a wonderful library with a ton of material and up to date reading on military equipment, weapons, vehicles, practices, of all eras.

That's fine too, but again, those books don't translate into the game line even remotely. I don't mean to pour on, but.... look at the SoT and how the CS military acts, these people who live their lives in the military and are the super power on the continent, do not behave as if any of them have even seen a movie on a war.

The issue I think is the conversion from military knowledge into an RPG that must preserve long term playability and provide entertainment. No one knows truly how many military ideas or questions have been raised or proposed with PB that get shot down not because they aren't practical, useful, cool or in use with modern technology, but simply because they can drastically augment the game mechanics and or overall fun for gamers.

No, we don't truly know. What we -see- though is that Militaries in Palladium books act like guys in movies, if that good (Usually lots more dumb).

More over than that. In rifts. All those roles can be handled by Robot Vehicles. (Save maybe troop transport and they can do that too. But Few come to mind that do it specificly. The Behemoths and such), and the Robot vehicles usually have more 'utility.'

You're honestly not wrong. It's just that once you get to 'mecha/robot vehicles', all those classes tend to get folded in. Sure some robots specialize in artillery, some are more light fast moving front line combat. some are bigger, heavier sluggers, but they all -are- kinda lumped together.

As for ---TANK---- Tanks.. they're kinda obsolete, if your force can afford/construct the robot vechiles. Not totally, but anything a tank can do, a Robot vechile can also do, usually with more mobility and agility.

Tanks still have their uses, but in most cases, if it's tank vs robot combat vehicle that holds the same 'nitch' the robot vehicle is going to out maneuver the tank and have an upper hand. (Not always. Sometimes it's a hovor tank or something and may be zipping around fast and shreddin'.)

Yeah, this was my personal initial concern, but with comprehensive analysis and brainstorming, I think there is a niche that some of these tank designs will fulfill that allow the tanks to earn their keep in the industry and the field. Lets just say we are talking RIFTS tanks. I just hope they all make it into NG2 and not get snatched up by other future IPs.

Oh I'd love to have them. If nothing else veriety is the spice of life.

[Premier]

I do. You do. Most people how ever are content to call um tanks and lump um together.
More over Palladium are --not-- military guys. They're some geeky guys that get their 'military' knowledge from movies and tv and what sounds cool.

I have to say, that while everyone at Palladiumbook is not the most military savvy, there are several that are quite well versed and one being a veteran,

This has --not-- been my experience, and in the books you seldom see 'real world' stuff past the vietnam era. Combined with books like the SoT and how 'militarys' act, in Palladium books, it doesn't indicate "Well versed" in any way, shape or form.

IMHO, There are some aspects that you --might-- want to consider into your overall evaluation of this issue:

A: RIFTS' s target audience as an "entertaining" rpg and its variable age bracket, from introductory level to adult. I came across Rifts and the like when I was a teen, more serious in high school and felt it easy enough to grasp, be inspired for playing and yet not being so comprehensive that I had to study professional caliber astro physics or military strategy guides to enjoy. This is not to say that as a GM progresses a setting that they can't modify the setting and gameplay as they see fit to preserve the intellectual stimulation and entertainment of the game for the players, but as a balanced --game--, the military practices dealing with the personalities behind them and the given chaos of the setting, overall yes, they still seem to fit the basic bill of things, imho. There is also a good deal of RIFTS fan base that purchase the books simply because they enjoy the read & story and don't play the game anymore. Now how much of that is predicated on the military strategies versus the entertainment value is pure speculative, but I would guess that its for the entertainment more so. Maybe, I might would do things different given certain scenarios, (Siege of Tolkeen for example) but that's personal preference or variations in ideas on how to accomplish something and I don’t know what Palladium has in its full RIFTS outline and scheme of things, but then there is the issues of too much military taking away a certain entertainment value of a game.

For example, the movie Aliens could have sent in remote operated drones (they have the technology) to scout out the compound to diagnose the problem(s). The minute they detected no feasible life other than the collection of personal data transmitters and the drone found the colonist all cemented in the confines of the resin nest, they could have either opted for an extermination squad, flushed the aliens out, used all synthetics instead of real human lives for ops or if it was matter of planetary security and the infestation was to severe, detonated the compound with no lives lost nor need for the marines. However, as for entertainment purposes, where is the fun and personal investment in those options?

Of if the Xiticix issue was totally handled from a military biased perspective, it would likely be all out open war with them as we speak as a mainstay of the setting. Adventures in or near the infested regions would be borderline null in void as opposed to extreme bombing, intense bio-warfare practices and usurping some far away power house as a new base of operations.

B: RIFTS setting has so many challenges and obstacles that even in a war torn setting, how strategic will your best attempts be in the global scheme of things versus overall survival and potential prosperity in a planet filled with so... many issues and rising concerns?

C: Game Mechanics. Given the technology, array of cultures and numerous factions availed, there would be literally only a matter of time before total full blown global/trans-dimensional warfare transpired destroying most of what the you and other players would hope to have adventures in? The destruction level and capability of technology from leading factions including alien tech is not going to decrease in a global war, its going to increase drastically. Real life caliber ballistics/Nukes would be the least of anyones' worries compared to what some evil alien or magical tyrant race is going to develop and boldly unleash. Heck, I even mentioned the idea of the issues with all... these various monsters, extraterrestrial/dimensional species and technology practices pouring into Rifts Earth, where is the RIFTS version of the smallpox dynamic or epidemic? What strains of diseases, viruses and immunity issues would such foreign interactions introduce to our ecosystems and immune systems and vice verse? Talk about nasty, such realism could take out plenty of D-Bees, and it is likely that humans would have easily been much further down on the power hierarchy at this point, possibly borderline extinct when you consider beings with supernatural regeneration and comparative intellect. Again, no major entertainment value once you go so deep into the realism as it can offset game mechanics and the setting to the point where it is just no longer entertaining.

For example, with the given technology of the CS, why wouldn’t they just develop the most powerful drones with the fastest flight capabilities with sniper like range for infantry and F35 capabilities during flight and utilize them in the field to suppress most d-bee oppositions and strongholds, where magic is absent, followed up by strategic bombing and nuking. The reasons is yeah this is easier to fulfill and manufacture but how fun would it be to play and how long would such games last if you had to contend with such technology, and that’s just the ground floor of CS capability. When we start really considering the full capability of psionics, or the stronger rivals of the CS, it would be humiliating to try and make a significant impact or adventure in such a harsh and powerful setting.

IMHO, military tactics and strategies have been well played in other instances especially when fused with cultural and setting impact looking at how the Xiticix issue is being handled in NG1 and Xiticix Invasion, in such a hot spot zone of rivalry with Lazlo, Federation of Magic and Free Quebec.

plus multiple freelancers who are veterans and experienced military personnel.

That may be so, but such things don't make it into the books for the most part. Again, if you look for 'modern' military things, they top out at or around Vietnam war era. Then they pretty much jump to "Rifts" level.

Are you referring to post Vietnam equipment and military technology or practices?

This is not to mention the plethora of military information and references that is compiled into a wonderful library with a ton of material and up to date reading on military equipment, weapons, vehicles, practices, of all eras.

That's fine too, but again, those books don't translate into the game line even remotely. I don't mean to pour on, but.... look at the SoT and how the CS military acts, these people who live their lives in the military and are the super power on the continent, do not behave as if any of them have even seen a movie on a war.

[b]to my knowledge, --Most-- typical CS actually haven’t seen the amount of wealth of movies, historic stories, etc., that we have been blessed to have access to and review to make and sustain such comparisons nor would such actions help sustain an entertaining setting that would have lasted 30+ years without drastically affecting the game that so many fans have grown accustomed to. Global warfare seriously redefines and sculpts the planet as we know it, and earth has really only endured several and look at the impacts. Now you intensify that ten fold with all the major power houses on RIFTS earth, because such a war is not going to be contained on just one continent, and within a few years RIFTS Earth supplements would be obsolete because of the need to rewrite and update the biggest and latest drastic affects of said war for each world book that was previously released. Quite similar to the Gargoyle kingdom in Triax 2, but on a much grander global scale. If the CS operated like modern day militia then nearly all humans would be looking to them to literally fix the planet or die in the hopes of it.

plus multiple freelancers who are veterans and experienced military personnel.

That may be so, but such things don't make it into the books for the most part. Again, if you look for 'modern' military things, they top out at or around Vietnam war era. Then they pretty much jump to "Rifts" level.

Are you referring to post Vietnam equipment and military technology or practices?

This is not to mention the plethora of military information and references that is compiled into a wonderful library with a ton of material and up to date reading on military equipment, weapons, vehicles, practices, of all eras.

That's fine too, but again, those books don't translate into the game line even remotely. I don't mean to pour on, but.... look at the SoT and how the CS military acts, these people who live their lives in the military and are the super power on the continent, do not behave as if any of them have even seen a movie on a war.

Most CS actually haven’t seen the wealth of movies, historic stories, etc., that we have been blessed to review to make and sustain such comparisons nor would such actions help sustain an entertaining setting that would have lasted 30+ years without drastically affecting the game that so many fans have come to love. Global warfare redefines and sculpts the planet as we know it, and earth has really only endured several and look at he impacts. Now you intensify that ten fold with all the major power houses on RIFTS earth, because such a war is not going to be contained on just one continent, and within a few years RIFTS Earth supplements would be obsolete because of the need to rewrite and update the biggest and latest drastic affects of said war for each world book that was previously released. Quite similar to the Gargoyle kingdom in Triax 2, but on a much grander global scale. If the CS operated like modern day militia then nearly all humans would be looking to them to literally fix the planet or die in the hopes of it.

The issue I think is the conversion from military knowledge into an RPG that must preserve long term playability and provide entertainment. No one knows truly how many military ideas or questions have been raised or proposed with PB that get shot down not because they aren't practical, useful, cool or in use with modern technology, but simply because they can drastically augment the game mechanics and or overall fun for gamers. [/b]

No, we don't truly know. What we -see- though is that Militaries in Palladium books act like guys in movies, if that good (Usually lots more dumb).

, I guess it depends on what movie(s) you refer to as some are quite good and most of all “entertaining”. Not to mention that some gamers and Contributors are actually inspired by those movies as we all are. A Tom Clancy movie, Aliens, HG Wells War of the Worlds, Blade Runner, The Thing, Zero Dark Thirty, Avatar, Platoon, Black Hawk Down, Manchurian Candidate, etc. Just this list demonstrates various ways as to how the military/governmental influence can stimulate ideas and entertainment and how they can affect the scene at hand or the lack thereof.

The key in the end is that RIFTS is still an entertainment rpg filled with numerous powerhouse variables and unknowns that NO modern day military has ever had to contend with and balance to consider.

Might I ask what you would implement and or do different?

As for ---TANK---- Tanks.. they're kinda obsolete, if your force can afford/construct the robot vechiles. Not totally, but anything a tank can do, a Robot vechile can also do, usually with more mobility and agility.

Tanks still have their uses, but in most cases, if it's tank vs robot combat vehicle that holds the same 'nitch' the robot vehicle is going to out maneuver the tank and have an upper hand. (Not always. Sometimes it's a hovor tank or something and may be zipping around fast and shreddin'.)

Yeah, this was my personal initial concern, but with comprehensive analysis and brainstorming, I think there is a niche that some of these tank designs will fulfill that allow the tanks to earn their keep in the industry and the field. Lets just say we are talking RIFTS tanks. I just hope they all make it into NG2 and not get snatched up by other future IPs.

Oh I'd love to have them. If nothing else veriety is the spice of life.

Yeah, I hope they all do make it, as variety is indeed a good thing, but with so much to cover, I’m not sure what will make the edit